Depression...

[RiderInBlack]

Well at least it looks like ya looking forward to Jeff Wayne's "War Of THe Worlds", so there is something good for ya ta look forward to AJ

"We'll start all over AGAAAAIIIIIIIIINNNNNN!!!!!!!!"

yes, friday! excited!

though it seems like it's never going to get here....

Posted here

Hope ya get ta enjoy it as much as We will

[Curious_AJ]

AJ - I believe you are suffering from depression, but I also believe that you haven't come to the point where you REALLY want to get well badly enough to say, "Fuck it - I've had enough" and take some steps to fix it. That may sound unfair, but it seems every time you post on here and people try to help you, you have no problem coming up with a reason or excuse why you can't be helped. That's what I call "classic victim mentality", where deep down you actually crave attention for some reason (rejection as a child? Past hurts you haven't got over?). So you don't (subconsciously or consciously) want things to be fixed, as then you won't get the attention you're after.

I'm talking shit, you say? No, I've "been there, done that", and have a younger sister who seems to be a walking soap opera - you wouldn't believe the shit that happens to her, which is so OTT it's hard to come to any other conclusion than that she must be responsible for causing a lot of it. Plus I have a son who's always negative and has a HUGE chip on his shoulder that he can't get over, despite having so many things going for him: he's smart (in the upper 99th percentile of the population), young, healthy, a talented musician, a whizz at anything technological (programming, electronics, whatever). Yes, he has things tough, as he was bullied mercilessly at school (he has Asperger's Syndrome), but he is single-minded enough and smart enough that he can get past that.

Anyway, people on KB aren't getting at you - just trying to help, with little success, as you keep throwing back reasons why you're beyond help. You are currently your own worst enemy: things in your life are NOT so bad they can't be fixed, but first you have to realise that you can't eat sympathy. Sure, it might feel nice being the centre of attention (something I sometimes still catch myself doing things to get), but then what? You need to do some serious soul-searching - and not of the kind where you go, "Oh.. poor me... I'm so fucked up... everything's going wrong...". Instead, you need to look at things that are wrong in your life with a view to fixing them - don't dwell on them - just accept them or discard them or if they're too hard, put them aside to fix later. And most importantly, look at the things that are RIGHT in your life.
Look for stuff you can build on.
Make a list.
Count your blessings. Here's a start:

1. You're young - plenty of time to get yourself sorted.
2. You're healthy (i.e., not crippled, not brain-damaged, not terminally ill, not suffering from cystic fibrosis, cancer, severe arthritis, blind, deaf, one-legged, badly disfigured from burns, etc etc.) Things could be a lot worse - don't make them worse!
3. You live in a reasonably good country, with a free public health system, and cheap medical care. There's no medical/financial reason you can't get sorted.
4. You're free - no dependent kids, no $300k mortgage. You're not incarcerated in prison, hospital or a mental ward.
5. You have friends and family who care for you.
6. You have a roof over your head, fresh water, food, clothes.

It's all basically up to you: you choose whether you're at the point where you've had enough of depression that you're going to grow up, accept responsibility for yourself, and do everything you can to get rid of it, or carry on being a victim of yourself.

okay, firstly, you don't know that I have those things that you mentioned... most of them I actually do not have.

somewhere along the line you've lost the offbeat sense of humour that i liked about you when you first joined - for your own sake try and find it again .... it'll probably do more for you than therapy or pills

a lot of people have shown a lot of concern for you on here - it's now up to you whether they are 'wasting their breath' or not

the hard, bitter truth is that only YOU can dig yourself out of this - but you do have to want to.

I have my sense of humour still, just that you dont tend to see it on here anymore, because I post when I have nothing better to do, am alone, and feeling like shyte. (because I've pushed away everyone who would hang out with me, just FYI)

Well at least it looks like ya looking forward to Jeff Wayne's "War Of THe Worlds", so there is something good for ya ta look forward to AJ


Posted here

Hope ya get ta enjoy it as much as We will

and yes, I'm looking forward to it. It's better than real life at the moment. I don't live in the same world as humans do these days,. but yes. it should be good.

[nodrog:Me]

yeah they use to think electrotherapy worked too...

it worked sweet as for me, i'm perfectly normal now.

[Kittyhawk]

okay, firstly, you don't know that I have those things that you mentioned... most of them I actually do not have.

I have my sense of humour still, just that you dont tend to see it on here anymore, because I post when I have nothing better to do, am alone, and feeling like shyte. (because I've pushed away everyone who would hang out with me, just FYI)

and yes, I'm looking forward to it. It's better than real life at the moment. I don't live in the same world as humans do these days,. but yes. it should be good.

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you don't know that I have those things - why have you replied with a negative comment? It's like you've jumped to a negative conclusion towards someone who is innocent, and trying to help suggest something postiive.
Why not think about the things YOU DO HAVE then?

am alone - Why? Get yourself being around people or things, animals, pets, tv, radio, the pc. Go into chat rooms and interact with others.
I live alone...and its prob a dangerous thing with my current headspace, but...I have a friend who comes over most mornings to hang out with me. It's not like he checks on me, just treats me as a mate. I appreciate it, no special needs and dosent treat me any different. When I've done something stupid (some of you know the things I do) I call him eventually and say "did it again" He's never had depression, doesnt understand it or why I am like I am, but he's there like many other kbers. Pm, e mail, ph call, txt away. I pm others when Im down. And they do the same when they are down. It's a 2 way thing. Never met them (will one day) but I know they are there for support when I need it and Im not ashamed to use it.
I bought 2 baby turtles to keep me company along with my dog and cat. I plan on getting another dog for more company dont want a flatmate.

I've pushed away everyone - been there and do this one often. In fact alot of KBers see me do this!!! I'll go to ATNR meet up at the pub, then leave early, dont say goodbye, just go. Why? cos I feel sad, bad headspace, depressed but, I go back the week after and try again. I go quiet dont say alot but just sitting there among people is a good thing. Have a laugh at some of the stories..dont particiapte but I still make an effort by just being there.
Other friends who I've pushed away, I reverse it when I am happy, invite them over. REAL friends understand.

I don't live in the same world - Sorry but you do! You require oxygen to breathe, light to see, food to survive. If you dont live in the same world as other humans I'd like to know what non human abilities you have then.
__________________________________________________ ___________

Count your blessings. Here's a start:

1. You're young - plenty of time to get yourself sorted.
2. You're healthy (i.e., not crippled, not brain-damaged, not terminally ill, not suffering from cystic fibrosis, cancer, severe arthritis, blind, deaf, one-legged, badly disfigured from burns, etc etc.) Things could be a lot worse - don't make them worse!
3. You live in a reasonably good country, with a free public health system, and cheap medical care. There's no medical/financial reason you can't get sorted.
4. You're free - no dependent kids, no $300k mortgage. You're not incarcerated in prison, hospital or a mental ward.
5. You have friends and family who care for you.
6. You have a roof over your head, fresh water, food, clothes.

1 - You are young, got your whole life ahead of you like I do. I dont care when I die, at least I know I've given life my best shot. If I died tomorrow I have no regrets, what will be will be.

2 - You can breathe with no oxygen pump, dont need to be in dialisis to cleanse your blood, are not laying stuck in a bed relying on machinery for survival. You are not a paraplegic, stuck in a wheelchair.
I damaged my knee by falling into a drum kit off a high percussion stool (yes I do dumb things!) was on crutches for 5 weeks couldnt walk, after that I appreciate walking...still do.

Maybe you should do some caregiver work with people in wheelchairs, then you would realise how lucky you are...I've done this, and it made me realise Im not as bad off as others. They need assistance to get dressed, go to the toilet, to eat. Rely on others to live for them.

3 - Do you live in a carboard box? No..NZ is a rich country..look around you, clear skies, grass, clean water, rain. Africa lacks these because of the geographicial makeup. People die because they cant drink water. Grass dosent grow because there is no rain. Livestock dosent survive because there is no grass...its a circle.
We have support systems in place, the crisis team, doctors, specialists trained in specific fields to help you. Sickness benifit, the dull, student allowance, accomodiation suppliment.

4 - You are alive, you interact with others, as part of the human race. Every human interacts with another at some stage in life. Sometimes you shut people out but you let them in again. Simplify the emotional baggage and life will get easier!!!!
__________________________________________________ ___________

That's it Im off to bed.

[Her_C4]

There is a huge amount of personal information on this thread from a large number of people that has been shared for the purposes of benefitting others...

Their personal accounts should not be trivialised by grandstanding, highjacking, mudslinging, personal attacks and general pointless drivel.

Keep this thread on topic..

[007XX]

__________________________________________________ __________

__________________________________________________ ___________

That's it Im off to bed.

I'm so proud of you Hun...

[Winston001]

__________________________________________________ __________

[/LIST]1 - You are young, got your whole life ahead of you like I do.

2 - You can breathe with no oxygen pump, dont need to be in dialisis to cleanse your blood........

Maybe you should do some caregiver work with people in wheelchairs, then you would realise how lucky you are...I've done this, and it made me realise Im not as bad off as others. They need assistance to get dressed, go to the toilet, to eat. Rely on others to live for them.

3 - Do you live in a carboard box? No..

4 - You are alive, you interact with others, as part of the human race. Every human interacts with another at some stage in life. Sometimes you shut people out but you let them in again. Simplify the emotional baggage and life will get easier!!!!

Good post Kitty.

One point - a person suffering from clinical depression has enormous difficulty in empathising with other people - they are so sad and unworthy within themselves that they can't put themselves in another's shoes. They are unable to feel sympathy for others because their own internal pain is so profound. They think they are meaningless and that everyone else is stronger than them.

You can tell someone how lucky they are but unless they can empathise and actually believe that, the advice cannot be interpreted.

I agree your suggestion of working with disabled people is excellent. In AJ's case I'd suggest the SPCA which I think she already does. AJ does have empathy - she wouldn't have a sense of humour otherwise or care about animals. It just needs to be drawn out more.

My two cents.

[Winston001]

At the risk of stepping rather deeply into the topic, it might help those who don't experience depression to learn that it is an existential experience. Indeed many illnesses of the mind are existential. Here is a link to existential psychology http://psych.eiu.edu/spencer/Existential.html

The depressed mind feels the core of its being, its existence, its raison d'etre totally threatened. The very concept of self becomes vanishingly small. A curtain is drawn between the individual and the world. That is why it is so difficult to reach a depressed person.

This is a profound experience for the mind. The whole question becomes WHY this mind as an individual entity, exists at all. It is almost like an acid trip but a really bad one which doesn't go away.

It is no accident that artistic and creative thinkers often suffer from diseases of the mind. It is their febrile grasp on sanity which allows them to look through a glass darkly and percieve truths which evade the rest of us.

A link to existential depression for anyone interested - http://www.tc.umn.edu/~parkx032/XP39.html

[Ocean1]

Ah, Existentialism. Gestalten pop-psych with a nasty messianic streak.
Too easy, shallow. Sorry mate, even pissed it’s unconvincing, unwholesome.

Is this the current received wisdom of today’s psych health industry exponents dude?

[Winston001]

Ah, Existentialism. Gestalten pop-psych with a nasty messianic streak.
Too easy, shallow. Sorry mate, even pissed it’s unconvincing, unwholesome.

Is this the current received wisdom of today’s psych health industry exponents dude?

Do you mean, is existentialism currently being taught in health courses? No idea, I only did Psychology 101 at uni many years ago. However if there are valid criticisms of this branch of psychology I'd be interested to read them - links please.

The reason for posting is that the concept adds to readers knowledge of depression. Cumulatively this thread serves a very healthy purpose as an outlet for support and sharing experiences. What might be off-track for you could ring a strong bell with another, so the more ideas we have to consider, the greater our knowledge.

The crux of the matter is I've had the existential experience and it first occurred when I was 13 years old. Never to be forgotten.

[Ocean1]

Quite right. Appologies.

There are, however, many places to stand outside one's ego. My outlook is different, but doesn't preclude yours, I just find some proponents surprisingly egotistical, given their claimed beliefs.

[Kittyhawk]

Decided to do something for the positive....

Was looking at purchasing a treadmill to save going to the gym - have it in the lounge to enjoy while I listen to music or watch tv...

After doing further research into myself I realised I missed something greatly....a trampoline. - had one as a kid and spent hours on it.

So I've ordered a supertramp (octopus one) Best thing is no weight restrictions! Not only will I get a full body work out but it means others can enjoy it too.

I've wanted one of these for a long time. Even as a kid I dreamed about owning one when I saw the advert on tv.

Now Im waiting....and am excited. This is my focus - to be happy.

[deanohit]

Awesome Kittyhawk, the tramp sounds like an awesome idea. Great to hear your thinking positive. I used to sleep outside on my tramp, the stars always looked so bright (where I was anyway)

[Busy]

The trampoline was my second intro into how girls are different to boys ... spent hours watching my neighbor bounce around when I was knee high to a grasshopper. Always brought a smile then puberty kicked in and it all turned to custard

[MyGSXF:Me]

people think therapy works... people only go when they're not actually mentally ill in any way, they just want to rabbit out some bullshit, then CLAIM it makes them better, when there wasnt anything wrong to begin with!!!

AJ - I believe you are suffering from depression, but I also believe that you haven't come to the point where you REALLY want to get well badly enough to say, "Fuck it - I've had enough" and take some steps to fix it. That may sound unfair, but it seems every time you post on here and people try to help you, you have no problem coming up with a reason or excuse why you can't be helped. That's what I call "classic victim mentality", where deep down you actually crave attention for some reason (rejection as a child? Past hurts you haven't got over?). So you don't (subconsciously or consciously) want things to be fixed, as then you won't get the attention you're after.

I'm talking shit, you say? No, I've "been there, done that", Anyway, people on KB aren't getting at you - just trying to help, with little success, as you keep throwing back reasons why you're beyond help. You are currently your own worst enemy: things in your life are NOT so bad they can't be fixed, but first you have to realise that you can't eat sympathy. Sure, it might feel nice being the centre of attention (something I sometimes still catch myself doing things to get), but then what? You need to do some serious soul-searching - and not of the kind where you go, "Oh.. poor me... I'm so fucked up... everything's going wrong...". Instead, you need to look at things that are wrong in your life with a view to fixing them - don't dwell on them - just accept them or discard them or if they're too hard, put them aside to fix later. And most importantly, look at the things that are RIGHT in your life. Look for stuff you can build on. Make a list.

It's all basically up to you: you choose whether you're at the point where you've had enough of depression that you're going to grow up, accept responsibility for yourself, and do everything you can to get rid of it, or carry on being a victim of yourself.

AJ.. I'm not going to beat around the bush.. I totally agree with vifferman.. I feel that you are very much your own worst enemy.. & largely it is to do with your thinking/beliefs, which then in turn dictates your behaviour!! So many people have put a lot of time & effort into being here for you.. but you shun them every time!

I'm now 38 & my life has been a BLOODY hard road to walk down.. I've had to deal with things that most people would never have to deal with in their lifetime, & I've had several of them all going on at the SAME time!! but do I sit here night after night & bleat about it... seeking attention.. NO! I get PRO-ACTIVE!! I get out there & actively SEARCH for sources of support & I don't stop just coz one thing might not work for me.. I go find another one that does!

You say.. "people only go when they're not actually mentally ill in any way"... which I can tell you is a distorted belief & also an over generalisation! I AM on meds & I GO to my counsellor EVERY WEEK & have done for the past 3ish YEARS!!! & I LOVE going!! I LOVE what I learn from her!! & the best thing I LOVE.. is coming out of there with UNDERSTANDING about what it was that was bothering me.. she gets to the very core of what it was that was REALLY going on, with myself or from someone else dumping their shit on me & trying to make it MY problem!! She tells me to my face if something I may have been thinking.. was a "distorted belief" or an "irrational thought pattern", stemming from my growing up in a dysfunctional family with a mother who was/is a classic victim & CHOOSES NOT to do anything about it.. instead making other people (mostly me) responsible "for her thoughts/behaviour"

Over the past 4ish years, I have actively sought out several courses to go & do.. I take my meds.. I go to counselling regularly.. I even attended polytech last year to do the "Certificate in Counselling" because I thought it would be of huge benefit to ME personally.. which it was!!! Sometimes it has been BLOODY hard work!! I've had times of crying myself to sleep & not wanting to get out of bed.. but those days were a long time ago now. Now I feel so strong inside! I KNOW I am a good person! I will NOT let people dump their shit on me trying to make their shit MY problem! I have learnt about boundaries! I have worked hard on my self esteem & my confidence! in short, I have changed my life HUGELY over the past 5 years & I will not stop now!

For goodness sake AJ.. DO SOMETHING TO HELP YOURSELF.. & ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOURSELF!!! I totally agree with vifferman's last sentences..

"It's all basically up to you: you choose whether you're at the point where you've had enough of depression that you're going to grow up, accept responsibility for yourself, and do everything you can to get rid of it, or carry on being a victim of yourself"

You are so young AJ, & you have your whole life ahead of you.. but you need to ask yourself.. do you really want to live in your current headspace for the rest of it???????????? or do you want to dig your toes in & say ENOUGH!! it takes courage & balls to get out there & sort your shit out.. like many of us on here are doing & have done .. but by God it's worth it!!!!!

love & light AJ

Jen