TV 8/2/07: Inside New Zealand - 4WD menace

[Beemer]

I do not drive mine because its safe .. neither do 5 other freinds who own them .. we drive them cause we can at time tow in excess of 2.5 ton, & getting in my house when the roadworks was on I needed a 4 wheel drive .. mind you still need it on occassion at the moment

as for the ride its way more comfy that my old camry ever was .. & more boot space .. esp when the back seats fold down

also its been handy to have a 7 seater esp when you take drunken workmates home

but then I have brought the vehicle that is best suited to my needs rather than a fancy accessory, & can not afford a second smaller car

Please note that I said "the majority" of women who drive them do so because someone has said they are safe. Sounds like you own and drive a 4WD for the reasons they were intended, which is not what I was talking about. I was - and I bet Wolf was too - referring to the posh ladies (and please don't red rep me for assuming you are not one of these, I've never met you) who drive them to and from the gym, cafe and private school. They would be better off in a station wagon or large family car. 4WDs have become status symbols and a lot of people have no idea how to drive them.

[onearmedbandit]

I come across more fucking idiots in cars than I do in 4x4's.

[oldguy]

You try doing this with your little eco friendly car , and if the boats not in tow,
I have the bike trailer, take the whanu out to woodhill, then there is my other toy, my car (cage) for those who don't know, have to hire a trailer for that, tow my car down to Pukekohe raceway, or Meremere for the Drags, Xmas hoilday time, load up the trailer and go camping, oh and when it rains and I can't be botherd with putting the wet gear on I take the 4x4.

1 vehicle does it all, Go the Mighty Pajero

[Wolf]

Sounds like you own and drive a 4WD for the reasons they were intended, which is not what I was talking about. I was - and I bet Wolf was too - referring to the posh ladies (and please don't red rep me for assuming you are not one of these, I've never met you) who drive them to and from the gym, cafe and private school. They would be better off in a station wagon or large family car. 4WDs have become status symbols and a lot of people have no idea how to drive them.

I do not deny that 4x4s have their uses and strong points and there are those here who have stated they know the inherent risks and make allowances for them - and I have no problem with that. There are also others out there mindful of the differences between a 4x4 and a car and drive them accordingly.

The fact does remain, however, that a significant number of them are bought purely as status symbols by people who have no idea of the differences between a large 4x4 and a small saloon and drive them accordingly.

In that respect, they are a major risk on our roads (as are people driving faster sportier cars than the ones they are used to, people driving vans and people-movers as if they are cars and people riding superbikes as if they are GN250s).

They are also a risk owing to the large number of people who don't know how they perform, where their blindspots are etc and expect them to behave like a regular car. Just as trucks are a risk owing to the people who don't seem to be aware you can't stop a truck in the same distance as you could stop a mini.

I see no need to have a large 4x4 to do the circuit between school, gym and cafe but, as has been pointed out, if they want to blow >$50K on a status symbol, that is their right.

However, they do have the responsibility to ensure they know how to drive it properly.

How many dealers advise the buyers of the risks involved in them and the differences between them and smaller 2-wheel drive cars?

Very few, I suspect. Many are more concerned with the commission/profit on the >$50K vehicle than ensuring the Remuera "soccer-mom" has a clue about what she's getting into.

The problem is not the number of SUVs on the road. The problem is the percentage of those SUVs that are driven to people who haven't progressed beyond a Honda City.

They are lots of alternatives to SUVs in most cases - a V8 saloon will happily tow a boat or horse float, a people-mover seats up to 8 people - many (not all) people choose to own an SUV only because it is more prestigeous than the alternatives. Sure, fine, their prerogative - but also their responsibility.

Some silly Remmers-chick driving a trendy SUV like it's an MR-2 is a hazard, no matter how many people out there can point to their own need for one. I'm not saying the Remmers-chick should ditch the SUV, I'm saying she should learn how to drive the fecking thing properly and carefully.

If a doco opens a few eyes and makes the public at large more aware of the differences between cars and SUVs or whatever, then that's got to be a positive thing.

I'd be quite happy to see a doco on the risks inherent in motorcycles televised in the hopes that it might educate at least some of the stupid cagers in how bikes perform, handle, corner and brake so maybe they'll cut us some slack on the roads, keep their distance and not do so many bone-headed things.

And it might give some of the more irresponsible riders out there cause to think about their actions, too.

But that'd just be a government plot to get rid of motorbikes, eh.

[KLOWN]

My friend used to have an old suzuki vitara style vehicle (not called a vitara, but similar) It was a 1.3 and we had great fun with it going all the places we shouldn't and generally ripping it up, but its handling was shit and a little bit of research on the net said these vehicles were sold with roll over warings in the states because they were so prone to rolling. Much newer 4x4 are better especially the expensive ones, ie the bmw and the porsche with all the new technology of yaw control etc but I think one point the docos will make is the danger is to OTHER pople not the people driving the suvs. If you get hit by one you are more likely to be killed.... in a car or on a bike or as a pedestrian they are dangerous. Also I have seen a couple of horrible accidents when 4x4 owners thought thier vechicles handled good, and they do, untill you need to make a evasive monuver. I owned a mini and often would take it out for a good cane. On my way out to piha one time a 4x4 tried to race me and he over took me as my mini was a bit gutless but boy could it handle, so anyway we were ripping through some corners and he was going faster than I felt I was able to go, next corner we came to was a lefthander and he proceeded to rip round it, it was on one hell of a lean, halfway through the corner a car was parked and he had to take emergency action to avoid the car and surprise surprise 4x4 swerved right, snapped back left and rolled was horrific it was just VERY lucky no one was coming the other way. 4x4 can handle well but not when evasive action is necessary. You can enter a corner and get the 4x4 leaning and nice and settled for a good corner but if you have to unsettle that predicted line its all over.

Also another thing that get me about 4x4 alot of the people who NEVER take it off road still have off road tyres on it, makes for crappier grip.

[Wolf]

You try doing this with your little eco friendly car

WTF has "eco-friendly" got to do with the topic at hand - vis, the hazards of people who are unaware of the physical differences between an SUV and a "standard" car?

Sheesh, mention that there are a lot of people out there that are unaware of the physical risks inherent in SUVs and suddenly half the forum gets on the defensive and starts screamimg that they're being got at by Eco-Nazis.

But yeah, nobody driving an SUV in NZ is a pretentious git with no need for one. Every single SUV owner in the country is responsible, mature, well versed in the risks and can justify their need to have one. To suggest otherwise is part of a gummint plot to control the Earth at the behest of the Eco-Nazis in their eco-friendly black helicopters.

Of course you can jump straight into an SUV and expect the same cornering, stopping ability and visibility as in your mum's Camry, they're totally interchangeable with 2-wheel-drive vehicles and no extra considerations need be taken. To suggest otherwise is the action of a stupid tree-hugging hippy.

There no irresponsible or dangerous bike riders in New Zealand, either.

I'd ask for a Tui but I prefer vodka.

[DEATH_INC.]

You do realise that prolly half these people that are dangerous in suv's would be dangerous in a mini don't you?

[Finn]

Here's proof that when you're driving a SUV, you're perfectly safe inside your your big metal shell. Oh yes, road superiority.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kBt0Ae5S0E

[onearmedbandit]

Idiots who don't deserve to be on the road do not understand the difference between the handling capabilites of a SUV and a sedan. These same idiots would be a danger in a car, on a bike, etc. Everyone I know who owns an SUV understands they are not car like and drive them accordingly.

I understand you are trying to point out that people need to be better educated when considering buying one of these vehicles. However, SUV owners are getting sick and tired of having to defend themselves due to the actions of the minority. And believe me, sick and tired of it. Want to know how many morons have tried pointing out to me that my 2.5 tonne 4x4 doesn't handle like a car. Well fucking done. You don't think I realise that? I do drive the thing.

Kind of like motorcyclists getting sick and tired of being called 'temporary NZ's' or 'organ donors'. Not all of us, despite riding these dangerous two wheeled 'death traps' are intent on heading to an early grave.

Unfortunately Wolf, you've struck a nerve.

How about instead of targeting 4x4 owners or motorcyclists or boy racers or elderly people or immigrants we instead target the most deadly aspect of motoring in NZ? The New Zealand drivers licence system.

[DEATH_INC.]

Also another thing that get me about 4x4 alot of the people who NEVER take it off road still have off road tyres on it, makes for crappier grip.

Yeh, but they look cool and sound the bizz while I'm cruising the motorway tailgating some biker and yakking on my celly and drinking my latte.....

[DEATH_INC.]

How about instead of targeting 4x4 owners or motorcyclists or boy racers or elderly people or immigrants we instead target the most deadly aspect of motoring in NZ? The New Zealand drivers licence system.

Or the lack of ability of our roadbuilders/ designers....

[onearmedbandit]

Or the lack of ability of our roadbuilders/ designers....

Yes, that too.

[DEATH_INC.]

Here's proof that when you're driving a SUV, you're perfectly safe inside your your big metal shell. Oh yes, road superiority.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kBt0Ae5S0E

What sort of suv is that?????? Looks more like a family s/w to me......
(though it is possible old age is getting my eyesight a bit, but it looks pretty small...)

[SixPackBack]

Or the lack of ability of our roadbuilders/ designers....

Living with the poor design would be easier if the roads where maintained.

East Coast Bays Road used to be a great stretch, fast, flowing and wide enough to be reasonably safe. After digging up the north bound lane to insert a water pipe the contractors appear to have roughly filled the resulting ditch in and coated it with a thin layer of tar and stones.

The resulting abortion is a road that now requires a 4*4 due to the holes and bumps, in the wet slick tar turns it into a skating track.

How do these pricks get away with it? bitching to the council or transit is met with total disinterest!!!.....but excuse me you fuckers tax payers [you and I] payed for that road. Shit it makes my blood boil.

[Wolf]

You do realise that prolly half these people that are dangerous in suv's would be dangerous in a mini don't you?

Possibly - but the mini lacks the same momentum. Should I return your red "bling" because I disagree with you? No, I prefer reasoned debate.