TV 8/2/07: Inside New Zealand - 4WD menace

[Wolf]

The tone of this thread is "Look, those self centred SUV drivers are putting us all at risk so that they can pose around in their pretentious, ego massaging, Remuera Tractors"

Not all SUV drivers, but there are those who do - I've encountered a large number of SUVs doing downright stupid and dangerous things and showing no signs whatsoever that the driver is an experienced driver, let alone one who regularly takes it off-road.

It is a fair comment to say that such drivers would be just as stupid in a car - but it is equally fair to say that they are all the more dangerous in a heavier vehicle and that there are those among them who have no real need to be driving one.

Frankly, I don't care if a person driving an SUV in a sensible and safe manner "require" it ot can "justify" it or not - if they're not a danger to anyone else and can handle the vehicle, they could drive a bus to work every day for all I care.

However, people who drive or ride dangerously are a danger to others. The bigger the vehicle, the more of a danger they are - momentum and how little room they leave for people to take evasive action - and if they also happen not to actually need a big vehicle to begin with, they are a needlessly increased danger.

So if my SUV were prettier, that would excuse its other failings?

Well, a classic 1960 Dodge SUV with whitewall tyres, huge front grille, over-sized fins at the rear, chrome-plated grease nipples and double-reverse overhead twin-cam door handles and I'd probably look at it and say "Fark! Niiiice!" But I probably wouldn't want to buy one any more than I'd want to buy an old Ford Prefect or a Heritage Harley - but I can still appreciate the style...

But yeah, nobody driving an SUV in NZ is a pretentious git with no need for one. Every single SUV owner in the country is responsible, mature, well versed in the risks and can justify their need to have one..

Sorry, my mistake. I took the imbedded quote to be sarcasm and interpreted it as meaning exactly the opposite of what it says.

You seem to have done more than that. You seem to have taken the logical exact opposite ("there are those who do drive them carelessly/dangerously and have no real justification to have them") and extended it to an absurd extreme ("All SUV drivers are careless/dangerous and none can justify having one").

Yes, I was being sarcastic, and I was pointing out that some SUV owners are dangerous idiots and that some people have no need for a 2.5 ton vehicle except to assuage their egos - not all, as you seem to have assumed I meant.

I had received a litany of responses from SUV drivers from which I gained a very strong impression that many of the SUV drivers on this forum believe that every SUV driver in the country is as safe, courteous, mindful of risks and needful of an SUV as they are; that no one has ever purchased and SUV for status value and no one has ever behaved dangerously in one or displayed an inability to control one safely.

The piece you quoted was a sarcastic response to those posts in general and oldguy's rant and rude gesture (from which I gathered he deemed me to be an eco-freak) in particular.

[Clockwork]

So what your suggesting then is some sort of license whereby infringements or discurteous driving accumulate penalty points and the more penalty points you have the smaller or lighter the vehicle you are allowed to drive? Well, why didn't you just say so, just so long as the rules apply to everyone.... not just the SUV owners.

[Wolf]

So what your suggesting then is some sort of license whereby infringements or discurteous driving accumulate penalty points and the more penalty points you have the smaller or lighter the vehicle you are allowed to drive? Well, why didn't you just say so, just so long as the rules apply to everyone.... not just the SUV owners.

Much and all as I'd like to see some of the more obnoxious boy racers forced to drive a Fiat Bambino for the rest of their lives, I don't think anyone is suggesting that.

What I'd like to see is people properly educated in driving and the risks inherent in other vehicles as well as their own (such as "the blind spot on one of these is pretty much the entire street rear of the driver's door" or "you can't expect someone to stop that eighteen wheeler in that distance) and the licensing system needs to be reworked so that total muppets don't get to drive/ride anything, let alone a large V8 or and SUV.

[Swoop]

How about instead ..... we target the most deadly aspect of motoring in NZ? The New Zealand drivers licence system.

I think you have an excellent point here OAB. Worthy of it's own thread all by istelf.

[KLOWN]

pajero means wanker

[scumdog]

This thread is Groundhog Day.... again.

[Motu]

pajero means wanker

That's why I got a Pajero - I always wanted a car with my name on it.

[avgas]

I AM A BANANA!
drove twice today on NZ roads

[KLOWN]

I was at work today so I only caught the last ten minutes. anyone care to give reviews on it? was it biased against 4x4 or was it perfectly balanced? (tui)

any interesting points or just a load of dribble?

[Jantar]

Once a vehicle and trailer reach a GCW (gross combined weight) exceeding 4500KG an HT licence is required. And with the larger SUVs having a GVW of about 2.5 tonne, doesn't take much of a boat, dual horse float or caravan to put them over the limit. Are police doing licence checks on SUV/trailer combos that appear like they might exceed the limit?

Yes, I have been weighed with my 4x4 and double horse float, and had to produce my licence. Fortunately I have classes 2 and 4, so I was OK. The cop did mention that I was over weight for my RUC, but I got a warning for that.

[Motu]

They used to target stockcar and horse racing meetings and catch them as they came out the gate.More for overloaded trailers than licences.

[scumdog]

Cobblers. SUV are built specifically as trendy, fashion statement lifestyle accessories...you're not suggesting a BMW X5 is designed to go off-road surely, with those tyres.

Which brings the point: if mum gets a flat tyre on one of these vehicles and is alone AND can't get the AA who will change the tyre for her???

[Finn]

Which brings the point: if mum gets a flat tyre on one of these vehicles and is alone AND can't get the AA who will change the tyre for her???

BMW Service. 0800 269 737

[scumdog]

BMW Service. 0800 269 737

Do Austin Gypsys too eh?? Cooool!

[Wolf]

I was at work today so I only caught the last ten minutes. anyone care to give reviews on it? was it biased against 4x4 or was it perfectly balanced? (tui)

any interesting points or just a load of dribble?

I watched the doco and they could have covered some things a lot better - like after showing the poor visibility out the rear and the rear-view CCTV fitted on some, they mentioned cheaper alternatives for improving the view out the back - some of which I easily recognised but others were not so obvious. I think they could have devoted a bit more time to saying what cheap options were out there to improve rear visibility.

By default I tend to treat SUVs as trucks anyway and operate from the premise that if I can't see the driver's face in the rear view mirror they most likely can't see me so I usually position myself so I can be seen in the driver's-side mirror.

Here's hoping a lot of other drivers/riders out there take note of the visibility issue and position themselves better behind SUVs.

The dynamics of SUV crashes are a mite worrisome - all the more so, considering I've seen a lot of people in SUVs driving as badly as the two ex-Golf drivers they featured.

I would have liked to have seen bits of the previous two weeks of them driving around in their own cars for a better comparison of their driving styles - we have no idea of how safe they were in a Golf so we can't tell how much of their driving was just crap driving skills and how much was not being properly familiar with the SUV.

Some of the quoted stats were a bit ambiguous - "x% of accidents..." with no indication of what percentage of those were SUV, cars, trucks, vans or motorbikes.

Interesting to note that a Bentley has the same mass as a large SUV (albeit presumably with different handling characteristics ).

That greenie cycling around the place putting stickers on people's SUVs is just asking for a smack in the chops by doing it on public television, isn't he? I can imagine an SUV owner tuning in, seeing that bit and saying "Hey, that's my fucking SUV, so that's the bastard that did it!"

So yeah, it had some good bits and some bits I think could have been done better. They at least got opinions from both sides of the argument.

The emmisions argument was a bit sketchy - a couple of anti-diesel comments, a couple of rebuttals, no real stats on what percentage of vehicles on our roads - including cars, trucks, vans and the occasional motorcycle as well as SUVs - use diesel.

Some interesting comments on the emissions from Jap imports compared with NZ-new vehicles - across the board, not just diesel.

Any of the SUV drivers here see it? What did you think?