Ahmed Zaoui: Residency or deportation?

**Wolf** · 18th February 2007, 11:47

Originally Posted by klingon

Zaoui escaped his torturers (as you would), boarded a plane on a false passport (obviously the Algerian military was not going to issue him with a real one - they were trying to kill him after all). He then destroyed the passport AS REQUIRED BY OUR LAW and requested asylum in NZ as soon as he arrived.

You seem to have missed out the bit about him using said passport to pass through other countries to come to NZ. Countries in which he could have sought asylum.

**Dave Lobster** · 18th February 2007, 11:48

Isn't he obliged to seek asylum in the first peaceful country he got to?

There's direct flights here from Algeria, is there?

Why here? Why not somewhere where he wouldn't get his food/housing/etc paid for by the working types?

**klingon** · 18th February 2007, 13:21

Originally Posted by Dave Lobster

Isn't he obliged to seek asylum in the first peaceful country he got to?

There's direct flights here from Algeria, is there?

Why here? Why not somewhere where he wouldn't get his food/housing/etc paid for by the working types?

I believe he first sought asylum in Malaysia, but fled from there when the Malaysian authorities came under pressure from Algeria to turn him over to them so they could execute him.

There are direct flights to NZ from Malaysia.

**petermonkeyguru** · 18th February 2007, 14:13

Just imagine if all peoples were considered equal, there was no racism, and religion practised what it preached (love thy neighbour as they self).
Imagine a world without boarders, the rich and poor could move and subsist where ever they pleased, or that sustained them.
Who would live in New Zealand? Where would you choose to live?
Immigration is not really a problem – it’s learning to live with differences and respect other cultures – that’s immigrants accepting our culture in this country as well.
But Zaoui has been convicted of terrorist crime in the past, he committed a crime to get into the country, leave him in Jail or just give him his day in court – make a decision and stick to it so he can get on with his life, be it here or in the country his family live in.
Funny how Maori have been the lest vocal about immigration to our country – when really the rest of us gate crashed them to start off with.

**petermonkeyguru** · 18th February 2007, 14:23

Originally Posted by klingon

"The international refugee conventions say that he had to destroy his passport in order to enter NZ as an asylum seeker. Rather than breaking our laws, he was complying with them."

Not from I know of the law - it was a criminal act

"university lecturer in Algeria who was democratically elected to form a government."

Who told you that rubbish? thats a spin on the real facts.

"Our refugee authority reviewed his case, found that all the 'evidence' of him being a terrorist was lies"

No they didn't. and he has never been granted refugee status, as far as I understand.

I wonder about the complexity of the case - and our inhability to trust our government to do the right thing

**klingon** · 18th February 2007, 14:30

Originally Posted by petermonkeyguru

...But Zaoui has been convicted of terrorist crime in the past, he committed a crime to get into the country...

Please elaborate. What crime has he been convicted of and what crime did he commit to come to NZ?

He exactly followed international requirements to request asylum in NZ (as explained above).

**petermonkeyguru** · 18th February 2007, 22:21

Originally Posted by klingon

Please elaborate. What crime has he been convicted of and what crime did he commit to come to NZ?

He exactly followed international requirements to request asylum in NZ (as explained above).

Zaoui was convicted in absentia in France in 2001 of participation in a criminal group with a view to preparing terrorist acts. And in Belgium in 1996 of being a leader and instigator of a criminal association with the intention of attacking persons and property;
having been released from custody, for home detention, he absconded to Switzerland illegally in 1997 - these are two countries that did not persecute him. He could've continued to lived in Belgium in freedom with his family who were there also. The Swiss authorities were suspicious of what he was involved with - they didnt kick him out, just took away his fax machine and started investigating his activities - what did Zaoui do? ran. He went to Burkina Faso in 1998, then ran to Malaysia in 2000, he ended up here travelling on a forged South African Passport (which he tried to destroy) in December 2002. They found in his possession a video tape of places in Malaysia, Thailand, Laos and Viet Nam that were targeted for terrorist attacks - it was a scoping tape - he has yet to explain this.
Its also important to remember that Mr Zaoui has appealed to the European Court of Human Rights against this Swiss decision, a decision they backed and Zaoui was fairly considered a threat. !!!!

You willing to take a chance on that lot then? Seems like a nice chap

**crack** · 19th February 2007, 02:49

Petermonkeyguru:

Kudos to you sir, 100% factual, well stated.

In this case I applaude Aunty Helens reluctance with the man.

**Wolf** · 19th February 2007, 08:47

Originally Posted by petermonkeyguru

Zaoui was convicted in absentia in France in 2001 of participation in a criminal group with a view to preparing terrorist acts. And in Belgium in 1996 of being a leader and instigator of a criminal association with the intention of attacking persons and property;
having been released from custody, for home detention, he absconded to Switzerland illegally in 1997 - these are two countries that did not persecute him. He could've continued to lived in Belgium in freedom with his family who were there also. The Swiss authorities were suspicious of what he was involved with - they didnt kick him out, just took away his fax machine and started investigating his activities - what did Zaoui do? ran. He went to Burkina Faso in 1998, then ran to Malaysia in 2000, he ended up here travelling on a forged South African Passport (which he tried to destroy) in December 2002. They found in his possession a video tape of places in Malaysia, Thailand, Laos and Viet Nam that were targeted for terrorist attacks - it was a scoping tape - he has yet to explain this.
Its also important to remember that Mr Zaoui has appealed to the European Court of Human Rights against this Swiss decision, a decision they backed and Zaoui was fairly considered a threat. !!!!

You willing to take a chance on that lot then? Seems like a nice chap

But don't you see?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

The French, the Belgians and the Swiss are all in a ginormous conspiracy with the Algerian Military-Terrorist government to falsify reports against this innocent man - the foul tentacles of the Lizard Army spread far and wide - reports of Black Helicopters all over Europe are proof-positive of this!

Still don't like Tui, gimme a vodka!

Seems like a hell of a difference from fleeing to Malaysia direct from Algeria and having to flee to NZ lest the evil Malays hand him over to the evil Algerians, doesn't it.

Safe in Belgium and Switzerland and suddenly feels the need to "escape" to NZ on falsified documents (I note he was fleeing from neutral Switzerland on false documents, not "Terrorist" Algeria) when people start investigating his activities...

But, yeah, he's an innocent victim of an evil regime...

Frankly, if the Swiss - famous for not having any agenda other than their own - have reason to be suspicious of him, I don't see why we should extend him any hospitality.

Let's send him back to Switzerland - they seem quite happy for him to stay there so long as he doesn't do anything naughty while they investigate his activities...

**Hitcher** · 19th February 2007, 10:02

Hmmm. Toblerone...

**Wolf** · 19th February 2007, 10:50

Hmmm, just had a thought.

Maybe - and this is just a wild, off-the-wall supposition, here - maybe the SIS is privy to information known to the Swiss, Belgians and French (and perhaps others) that is still classified as sensitive so maybe they're telling the truth about having certain information but are not free to divulge it.

Nah, what am I thinking?!?!?! It's all a vast conspiracy with the Algerians and our SIS would never have checked Zaoui's background out with European intelligence agencies. They're just making it up because it's fun to persecute random people seeking refugee status...

**SPman** · 21st February 2007, 01:33

I'll stick this on here as a wrap up...no one will read it but....I agree with Bomber by the way.

"The ignorance of NZers

I asked some wee blogger on this site who Mr Zaoui was and all they were able to give me was a list of charges from European Courts which sums up the totality of ignorance NZers seem to have on who Zaoui is and what he represents.

So let’s talk about Zaoui – he was a democratically elected member of an Islamic party in Algeria up against a repressive Government, backed to the hilt by the French who had massive oil and gas interests in Algeria. Zaoui’s party intended to take those oil and gas revenues and spend them on the people of Algeria, this of course was intolerable to the French who the minute Zaoui's party won, backed the military in a coup to throw out the democratically elected government of Zaoui and started a massacre on Zaoui's supporters. Zaoui fled and on the bequest of the French found himself being charged using secret evidence in absentee, all in part to discredit Zaoui’s party and hide the French backed brutality. Of course all ignorant knee jerk red necked NZers know is the French side of the story, France of course tested nuclear weapons in our back yard for decades and lied about the radioactivity leaking into the pacific and are of course the only nation to have attacked our country with a terrorist bombing of the rainbow warrior in Auckland, all this after NZers spilled blood in two world wars defending French soil. So why the fuck dumb, red necked NZers would NOW choose to believe anything the fucking French have to say is well beyond me.

We’ve talked about who Zaoui is, so let’s talk about DUMB New Zealanders shall we? Here is the example of how DUMB NZers are.

NZers are soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo dumb, that the interviewer who originally asked Zaoui of he was a member of a radical Islamic group who were operating in Algeria at the time, and who were responsible for some violence but a group nevertheless that had nothing to do with Zaoui’s party whatsoever – when Zaoui said NO, the interviewer misunderstood that NO as a YES, leading to a breathless press release to the Global Intelligence community that NZ had caught a major Islamic terrorist and we then put a secret agent in Zaoui’s cell to ask him (get this folks) did he know where Osama Bin Laden lived…….

….fuck NZers are dumb. In the most embarrassing climb down, our secret intelligence service had to put out a new press release admitting they got it wrong.

So Zaoui and his family escape a brutal coup, sponsored by the French because of French Oil interests, has his name slandered in European Courts all based on secret evidence supplied by the French, lands in NZ because he once read (ironically) a press statement by Helen Clark that she sympathized with the Algerian people during the brutal French supported military coup against Zaoui’s party, and he selected NZ as a safe haven. We respond by locking him up in Solitary for 10 months (an unheard of amount of time which equates to torture), refuse to let his family join us and gets told to ‘Fly home’

There are times when my fellow NZers are just a bunch of ignorant hick fools, we should be DEEPLY ashamed of the way we have treated Zaoui.

Psst, Mr Zaoui - where's Osama hiding?
Police put an undercover agent in a cell with Algerian refugee Ahmed Zaoui and asked him "Where is Osama bin Laden?", a just-released Police Complaints Authority decision reveals.
Zaoui's lawyer Deborah Manning has ridiculed the "Keystone Cops" police actions after his arrival in December 2002. But, she said, their belief that they had caught a "big fish" had serious and lasting consequences for Zaoui - the worst that he was held in solitary confinement for 10 months on the basis of a police threat assessment.
The PCA investigation - which took three years - was prompted by complaints in January 2004 by former MP Matt Robson. The authority, Judge Ian Borrin, upheld a number of them and referred his findings to the police commissioner. The PCA report said the undercover agent was put in a day room with Zaoui at the Papakura police station on three occasions soon after he arrived in New Zealand seeking asylum.
After a Customs officer had misunderstood his reply to a question, they wrongly believed he was a member of Algerian terrorist organisation GIA. The agent was to "gather intelligence" with questions such as "Do you like Bin Laden?" and "Where is Osama bin Laden?" While unorthodox, it did not appear to breach Zaoui's rights. Zaoui had provided no information of note, Borrin wrote. Manning said Zaoui realised the man was an undercover agent. "He was only let out of his cell into the day room a few times and this guy was always there asking bizarre questions." Zaoui told the Star-Times he thought the man's activities were strange. When asked where Bin Laden was, he had replied "in Afghanistan". The agent could speak only English - which Zaoui could barely understand - so communicated some questions with charades. The PCA criticised the police threat assessment of Zaoui as "not well considered nor well constructed and it should not have been presented to Corrections in the form that it was." It "assumed much greater significance than was appropriate".
Manning said the police refused to budge on their incorrect assessment of Zaoui. Matt Robson said the decision made it clear there had been important breaches of Zaoui's rights. Police had relied on "dodgy sources" and exceeded their authority. Zaoui, now in the care of Dominican friars, still awaits the review of the government's security risk certificate which can see him deported."

**Guitana** · 21st February 2007, 07:32

What is he still here???

I'm going to run for parliament and become the new minister for immigration!!!
Any whingers and moaners that don't want to accept our culture and are trying to change the way we live to suit there own selfish needs!
The new policy will be simple if you don't like it fuck off!! here's a plane ticket see ya later!!
The way I see it is that we need to sort out the indifference between Maori and Pakeha first and build a stable relationship between the two uniting to become one country!
I know alot of people on this forum don't agree with maori issues and that's fine but we need to realise that there was alot of dodgy dealings done in the old days and yes beleive it or not alot of tribes in NZ were fucked over!!!!
The original treaty was written in english and when transcribed into maori the interpretations were different!! Most of the Cheifs that signed that treaty had no idea of the conditions that would be imposed on them and when they were goaded into skirmishes with colonial troops their land was confiscated.
This was done intentionally to take their land under the treaty!
And you wonder why the Maori are upset!! I would be fucked off too!!!

**Dave Lobster** · 21st February 2007, 12:09

Originally Posted by SPman

I'll stick this on here as a wrap up...no one will read it but....I agree with Bomber by the way.

"The ignorance of NZers

[FONT=&quot]
I asked some wee blogger on this site who Mr Zaoui was and all they were able to give me was a list of charges from European Courts which sums up the totality of ignorance NZers seem to have on who Zaoui is and what he represents.

So let’s talk about Zaoui – he was a democratically elected member of an Islamic party in Algeria up against a repressive Government, backed to the hilt by the French who had massive oil and gas interests in Algeria. Zaoui’s party intended to take those oil and gas revenues and spend them on the people of Algeria, this of course was intolerable to the French who the minute Zaoui's party won, backed the military in a coup to throw out the democratically elected government of Zaoui and started a massacre on Zaoui's supporters. Zaoui fled and on the bequest of the French found himself being charged using secret evidence in absentee, all in part to discredit Zaoui’s party and hide the French backed brutality. Of course all ignorant knee jerk red necked NZers know is the French side of the story, France of course tested nuclear weapons in our back yard for decades and lied about the radioactivity leaking into the pacific and are of course the only nation to have attacked our country with a terrorist bombing of the rainbow warrior in Auckland, all this after NZers spilled blood in two world wars defending French soil. So why the fuck dumb, red necked NZers would NOW choose to believe anything the fucking French have to say is well beyond me.

So... with this as his background, what is he going to do for a living in NZ, if he gets to stay? I can't think of a company that would take him on.. not on enough money to feed/clothe/house his family. Who is going to pay for it all?

**mstriumph** · 21st February 2007, 12:21

Originally Posted by SPman

...................................this of course was intolerable to the French who the minute Zaoui's party won, backed the military in a coup to throw out the democratically elected government of Zaoui and started a massacre on Zaoui's supporters. Zaoui fled and on the bequest of the French found himself being charged using secret evidence in absentee, all in part to discredit Zaoui’s party and hide the French backed brutality. Of course all ignorant knee jerk red necked NZers know is the French side of the story, France of course tested nuclear weapons in our back yard for decades and lied about the radioactivity leaking into the pacific and are of course the only nation to have attacked our country with a terrorist bombing of the rainbow warrior in Auckland, all this after NZers spilled blood in two world wars defending French soil. So why the fuck dumb, red necked NZers would NOW choose to believe anything the fucking French have to say is well beyond me................................[/I][/FONT]

.................... ahhhhhh the FRENCH. up to their peverse, arrogant, self-interested shenannigans again -
- should have KNOWN it .........

why don't they just stick to making champagne ...... and windows ....... and tarts and stuff?