Losing the fight

[ManDownUnder]

... if you have an issue with her children you take it up with her. She was huge on consistency

Different stroke for different folks but I believe you hit it on the head - albeit in a different way. The expectation is to take it up with her (i.e. not let it slide).

That's where NZ is getting it wrong IMHO. Too many just let it slide... in fact there seems to be a growing expectation that "I'm not allowed to do anything" even when the little bastards are smashing and burning.

[Joni]

Yup 100% MDU.. not saying let it slide... the parent would decide what the decipline would be...

[imdying]

My parents' rules were no matter what adult was looking after me they were allowed to discipline.

my Mother for example would take offence if someone diciplined her children, its basically not their place...

It is if she asks them to look after them.

[Toaster]

A few good smacks and a healthy respect for adults served me well. Kids seem to be given way too much in every respect except discipline. It is no wonder so many seem to lord it over their parents. Whatever happended to doing as you are told, respecting authority and contributing to the family by helping out?

[kro]

Retaliation is a failing, a good parent informs the child before the mistake is made.

So damn true, but sometimes we miss some things, and new "mistakes" can creep up at any moment, so it's hard to cover the field. But I see what you're saying.

Look him directly in the eyes, tell him what is wrong with what he has done and do not loose eye contact.

Eye contact is mandatory in our household. It seems to bring the truth out very well.

How would you react if your mechanic yelled at you "Your bike is fucked cos you fucked it!" with no reasoning.

I would look sheepish, and admit he was right, coz I suck at the bike fixing game !!.

[Guitana]

Yeah my old man was right into that rural justice for naughty kids!!! Mind you my brother and I nearly gave him a brain hemorrage when we crashed the tractor through the hay shed wall and ditched the landcruiser in the river!!
No wonder he died at the age of 53.
I can still hear his last words before he died: NO DON'T SON THAT GUN IS LOADED!!!!!!!

[NordieBoy]

How would you react if your mechanic yelled at you "Your bike is fucked cos you fucked it!" with no reasoning.

You've met my brother Shane?

Spooky

[ManDownUnder]

Retaliation is a failing, a good parent informs the child before the mistake is made.

Yeah - I see where you're going with that and you're not wrong - I'd add to it however. It's impossible to anticipate the sheer variety of things kids are capable of. Throwing stones down the scree was an example given earlier and it'd be great fun to do - and apparently harmless to a young mind. So - first time it happens, tell them it's wrong, and explain why. Don't bust their balls - it's a the perfect way to raise the stakes, get everyone offside and turn it into an argument.

Highlight what they did wrong - and why it's wrong. Kids are usually keen to learn, and what they retain never fails to amase me.

The second time - refer back to the first incident. Have them recall why it was wrong. They get to demonstrate they were either not listening, didn't understand, they forgot, they didn't take it seriously, or they're being naughty.

Up the stakes after that - depending on how heinous the crime is. Life and death stuff is serious from the first warning... picking their nose or farting in public is reason for a quiet word with them.

The initial reaction also helps the child understand the gravity of the situation. If you go off your nut at everything, how can they tell which things they MUST DO (not playing on a busy road), and which things they need to think about before doing (farting in the lounge). Watch out for that stuff you do that's wrong... and pull them up for too (farting in the lounge being a classic example). If there is any hypocrasy or ambiguity it WILL confuse the child. So be honest - put it in context for them and explain why sometimes it's funny, and sometimes it's not. Some guests may even join in (but I digress)

It's no biggy - just work with them, not against them and we'll all be fine. Kids need boundaries though, and if I need to provide them - I will. If I step on someone's toes in the process (i.e. Joni's mum to use an example given) then I'd apologise, explain I didn't understand her rules and explain to her what I was doing - and why.

[Joni]

If I step on someone's toes in the process (i.e. Joni's mum to use an example given) then I'd apologise, explain I didn't understand her rules and explain to her what I was doing - and why.

Then stand up after she floors you and gives you a black eye.

My little 4ft9" Maaaa is a fiesty one

On a serious note I get what you are saying MDU, your post makes sence...

[ManDownUnder]

My little 4ft9" Maaaa is a fiesty one

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Genetic is it? I can't imagine you just being pushed around either.

[avgas]

You've met my brother Shane?
Spooky

Mabey, does he ride a guzzi? or a bmw?

[avgas]

It's no biggy - just work with them, not against them and we'll all be fine. Kids need boundaries though, and if I need to provide them - I will. If I step on someone's toes in the process (i.e. Joni's mum to use an example given) then I'd apologize, explain I didn't understand her rules and explain to her what I was doing - and why.

Completely agree - The only reason why i brought it up is kids respect role models, even they piss you off, you always respect your role models cos they told you what was wrong.

Kro you sound like you have it sorted. But how come your brother cant tell you of what your child has said - and you ask your child (eye contact) of what they did wrong.
I would hate for your kids to hate your brother cos he yells all the time.

Also i agree with the spanking thing (much to my sisters disgust), but only as a last resort. A good parent hurts more than the child in a spanking.

[Macktheknife]

Kro
What a great thing it is to hear of good parenting models still in use! Seriously, I have learnt that most of the parents I see lately have not got the nouse to see what is to me (and obviously you) good parenting and use the tried and true methods. Violence unnecessary, but a smack can be very memorable! A good telling off is a wonderful tool when used well, and as MDU says, kids need boundaries, so do the rest of us actually.
Continuity is essential, shared responsibility is fantastic, and clear communication is paramount.
It really makes me glad to hear this kind of strong loving parenting is still alive and kicking.
Thankyou

[NordieBoy]

Mabey, does he ride a guzzi? or a bmw?

Nope.
He's a bike mechanic in Nelson who would tell you if he thought you'd fcuked it