Whetu Te Hiko

[Hitcher]

Prison is so soft now there is no point sending anyone there.

And the last time you were incarcerated for an extended period, if at all, was when?

[Paul in NZ]

You all know what my opinion is. Unforunately it's too late for this person but seriously - we need to look at why this sort of crap seems to run in certain families and intervene...

Oh why am I bothering to even post this or log in anymore...

[Finn]

Oh why am I bothering to even post this or log in anymore...

Because you can't help yourself and you feel it is your duty to remind us all of the atrocities that were committed against the maori people and that we must all feel guilt and shame?

Hey Paul, do you agree with Tuirangihuia Teehaa requesting that immigration stop allowing Europeans into NZ because they are browning down the place?

[scracha]

They need to locate the prisons in a quarry and make these inmates break rocks all day then they will be too fucken tired to harrass the staff and plot more crime!!!

Or have them sat sending personalised spam out to the Russians, Chinese, Yanks and Polish. Then at least they could earn some money and we'd be getting a little revenge for the spam they send us.

[buellbabe]

Personally I reckon abolishing the death penalty was a big mistake... (oh BTW the last person to hang in NZ was innocent but by the time that was discovered it was too late... ).

Of course guilt has been well and truely established in this case, what a shame we don't live by the ol' eye-for-an-eye tooth-for-a tooth type law...

Anyway its good that he pleaded guilty and therefore the case won't be dragged out too much longer but I can't help but wonder, if the death penalty was mandatory for murder do ya still think he would have pleaded guilty???

[Guitana]

Or have them sat sending personalised spam out to the Russians, Chinese, Yanks and Polish. Then at least they could earn some money and we'd be getting a little revenge for the spam they send us.

Yeah spam the fuckers!!!!

[Mr Merde]

Yes, the little bastard is scum. Yes, I agree wholeheartedly with the death penalty. I have only one problem with the death penalty - is the person who would kill this scumbag a killer? Or is the government that would approve that killing, sanctioning murder?


Incidentally, what is the difference between 1st and 2nd degree murder - If you intend to kill someone isn't that murder?

I seem to remeber reading, a long time ago, the biography of the last hangman in the UK. I seem to remeber that after each execution he was brought up on charges of murder (unlawful killing) and was aquitted.

I dont think we have 2nd degree murder under NZ law. Correct me but I think in this country it is called manslaughter.

1st degree murder is meaning to kill someone
2nd degree is unitentionally killing someone during the commission of a crime

I think this is how the US views the difference.

Do correct me if I am wrong.

[mstriumph]

There is absolutely no evidence anywhere in the world that shows that having a death penalty deters people from murder, rape or any other serious crime against people. ....................

.............and overwhelming evidence that it stops recidivism, 100%.

...............................................
As long as this oxygen thief never walks freely, I will be happy.

awww c'MON .... there's about as much chance of him never again 'walking freely' as there is of my being able to teach my cat to crochet ......

[mstriumph]

..........
Do you trust the police to handle the evidence that your life depends on?

this is the other part of it

- i don't trust the authorities to act properly on my behalf - because the authorities do not consider themselves responsible to the people that elected them ...... [shades of Animal Farm ]

- anyway, i don't believe it's the state's affair to punish or forgive people that hurt those that i'm responsible for .......... under any system of fairness or justice, that would have to be down to me.

the state usurps far too much responsibility from the individual - i suppose it finds us easier to govern if it saps our self-reliance and gets us to rely on government for every little thing?

[Paul in NZ]

Because you can't help yourself and you feel it is your duty to remind us all of the atrocities that were committed against the maori people and that we must all feel guilt and shame?

Huh? Atrocites were committed on both sides BUT in the overall scheme of things both sides went to great lengths NOT to go completely ballistic. Something we can ALL be proud of. I feel no shame at all, I would like Maori to feel proud of their culture as well and most of the revitalisation of their culture that has occured in the last couple of decades has brought nothing but good. The not being able to help myself - yeah - probably have to put my hand up for that one..... Slighly better than P addiction...

Hey Paul, do you agree with Tuirangihuia Teehaa requesting that immigration stop allowing Europeans into NZ because they are browning down the place?

Hard to say without sitting down with the woman and finding out what she really means as opposed to what is reported. A lot of Maori party policy is warped by the time it gets into the media. If we go by this report...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/3973886a11.html

Surely she is a politician doing what she is paid to do and representing her voters and (maybe selfishly) defending her power base. If she wants to discuss immigration I'm all for it (the discussion, not immigration) and good on her! Personally she leaves me cold but there are some good buggers in the Maori party with some good ideas so you need not worry - they will never get into power..

[Finn]

Something we can ALL be proud of. I feel no shame at all, I would like Maori to feel proud of their culture as well and most of the revitalisation of their culture that has occured in the last couple of decades has brought nothing but good.

Hard to say without sitting down with the woman and finding out what she really means as opposed to what is reported. A lot of Maori party policy is warped by the time it gets into the media. If we go by this report...

I'm certainly not proud of what they've achieved and neither are a lot of maori. Also, I'd really like to know what maori culture is exactly apart from what I see on Police 10 7.

That's the problem - maori party policy. There shouldn't be any. Having a maori party is racist. It's just like the Greens - pointless.

[SPman]

Prison is so soft now there is no point sending anyone there

and again on that point .....

"…….so a culture of lock ‘em up and throw away the keys develops, and within that culture the people who have to look after those prisoners end up not caring either. So we have a society that doesn’t care about the violent environment we send prisoners to, and the people employed to run the prisons don’t bother doing the right thing because they know that society doesn’t give a toss about the human trash that ends up getting dumped with them. This leads to the type of problems we’ve seen recently, corrupt prison staff, racist prison staff, a culture of intense and under reported violence, rapes, and of course Liam Ashley getting strangled in the back of a police van because no one could be bothered following the rules, because no one in the public cares about prisoners welfare, so the staff don’t either."


And of course gang rule in some prisons, because, again, no one gives a toss, as long as “they” are all behind bars and out of sight

Yep - sure sounds "soft"

[Patrick]

.............and overwhelming evidence that it stops recidivism, 100%.



awww c'MON .... there's about as much chance of him never again 'walking freely' as there is of my being able to teach my cat to crochet ......

Completely correct on both counts!!! Mr HITCHER.... what say you now???

Mind you, some cats are clever little bastidges... And Mr BURTON will be released well within my life time....

[Patrick]

and again on that point .....

"…….so a culture of lock ‘em up and throw away the keys develops, and within that culture the people who have to look after those prisoners end up not caring either. So we have a society that doesn’t care about the violent environment we send prisoners to, and the people employed to run the prisons don’t bother doing the right thing because they know that society doesn’t give a toss about the human trash that ends up getting dumped with them. This leads to the type of problems we’ve seen recently, corrupt prison staff, racist prison staff, a culture of intense and under reported violence, rapes, and of course Liam Ashley getting strangled in the back of a police van because no one could be bothered following the rules, because no one in the public cares about prisoners welfare, so the staff don’t either."


And of course gang rule in some prisons, because, again, no one gives a toss, as long as “they” are all behind bars and out of sight

Yep - sure sounds "soft"

You can't be serious, this is a wind up, right??? You got me...

They have all sorts of education and courses they can do in there... but ONLY if they want to...free medical and dental, all paid for normally by the victims and their families and the law abiding hard workers who have done no wrong.

The wardens do their best with them, but still get shit thrown at them (actual and metaphorically)...

Corrupt prison staff? From being threatened with the bash unless they let Joe Arsewipe visit them unhindered by searches when he brings in the drug supply...?

Racist prison staff? When I last looked, wardens were all colours....unless you are talking about the Chinese warden who called the Triad gang banger who threw a turd at him a "chink?"

As for Liam, some rules were not followed, but hey, he was already choosing his own path there, just like ALL those in there... NO ONE gets remanded in custody on their first offence of nicking cars... He had some history already and it didn't stop him, did it? I guess he has stopped now....

Gangs rule in prison because they are allowed to continue their behaviour in there... no one is allowed to stop them because it might hurt their feelings...

Geez, only one colour TV flat screen in their one room heated floor cell, with three good meals a day, exercise equipment, computor, drugs galore, visits from family and friends, must be real tough on them...

Then again, what do the victims and their families get?

Oh yeah, thats right... the victims "got it" already.... they get visits to the graveside/hospital bedside, whatever....

The families get the joy of seeing the killer/rapist whatever grow to massive sizes from his healthy eating and weight training, getting released to do it all again somewhere, sometime, someplace...

Yep, Ms Triumph has it right... the evidence is undisputed and cannot be argued against... those who kill and are disposed of, NEVER do it again...

Its been said before, make prison life undesireable so they don't want to go back in, which is not how it is now. Imagine the staunch gang bangers being made to dress up in pink frilly overalls, doing hard labour every day to earn their bread and water and an occasional worm ridden apple...

[spudchucka]

Prison is so soft now there is no point sending anyone there.

Punitively speaking you are probably correct. However, at least that person, once imprisoned, is no longer circulating within society collecting more and more victims.