Aresholes con a jury, part two

[Patrick]

Candor... if it is any help, things have changed over the last 20 plus years and these complaints in the late 80s and into the 90s in particular were poorly handled, at that time. The effort since then in reinvestigating them has been massive.

I have NEVER seen a victim not believed instantly, EVER...

Some, more than I would like to see, have turned out to be bullshit, but at the time, they were treated as very real and full investigations were commenced no matter what. Why these ones in Rotorua and the environs nearby weren't, is still to be seen.

Here, we had three rape complaints (and a kiddie fiddling) in the weekend just gone and all three are being investigated... some of those have already been found to be false.... it happens, but to believe victims are never believed is just wrong.

Heaven forbid, if it does happen, there is nothing to be afraid of from the Police these days at least... advise Police as soon as possible so vital evidence is not lost... that evidence corroborates what is being said by the victims, making it no longer one word against the other.

The "consent" call is always going to be a difficult hurdle, but the sooner the complaint is made, the more likely a result for the victim is going to be achieved.

[Goblin]

- obviously they took these (nicholls et.al) complaints seriousy, or the charges would never have seen the light of day. once it's in the court arena, crown prosecutors (not the police) and the court system have the ball, and it is effectively out of the cop's hands.

They only took these complaints seriously AFTER the media got involved. All other attempts were laughed at! After all it is Law defending Law....she never had a shit show and now I see dickheads accusing her of lying! AARRRGGGHHH!!!!

[Goblin]

I think you're seeing what you want to see there Goblin. I'm not going to be a cheerleader for CR, but I think the way the media (the Harold chief amongst them) has exhibited a complete lack of balance is reprehensible.
Pick a good thugish photo of CR, photo of LN looking wistfully off-camera in subduded lighting...etc etc.

I repeat, I'm not cheerleading for CR, just looking to see some objectivity. The only people to have had all the fact properly presented are two juries, both of whom found CR Not Guilty.

You are cheerleading for rickards in everyway possible. Those juries did NOT get ALL the facts, what they got was a washed down version that would make the accused look good and the accuser the criminal. Im seeing what I KNOW!!!

[Goblin]

.

I have NEVER seen a victim not believed instantly, EVER...


The "consent" call is always going to be a difficult hurdle, but the sooner the complaint is made, the more likely a result for the victim is going to be achieved.

You've obviously never worked in Rotorua then.

How can a 14 year old give CONSENT??

[scumdog]

You are cheerleading for rickards in everyway possible. Those juries did NOT get ALL the facts, what they got was a washed down version that would make the accused look good and the accuser the criminal. Im seeing what I KNOW!!!

Just like they don't get "all the facts" in all other cases.

[Goblin]

Just like they don't get "all the facts" in all other cases.

Exactly scummy! It all boils down to the highest paid lawyer!

[scumdog]

Don't know if this covers Goblin. She seems to know people involved so have an inside track.

But Scumdog I might just add that victims have good pervertdar, in the same way cops have good crookdar and teen boys have good chickdar (watch their heads swivel downtown at midnight)- Okay. These qualifications and skills are often highly accurate.

But still doesn't explain how some on this thread 'know' stuff - like actually, really KNOW it.

[candor]

Maybe they were there or had similar events. Any one else ready to step up pls phone the 0800RICKARDRAPE line and an independent body made up of Police Rickards pissed off will fully investigate your complaint.

The website set up for discussion of these issues and all other matters of Police, judicial or other hidden corruption is to be found at www.schollumboys.org

Lawyers who belong to paedophile rings or invest in class A drug distribution and Drs who trade sex for drugs may be referred to by initial only, due to repressive defamation laws. Thankyou.

[Damon]

Well you go make up your narrow little mind then! There is no way LN has made up any of these allegations, why would she? You really believe she's just making this all up to get attention? Revenge? Seems Terbang is right....serial accusers of rape are becoming widespread....and all WILL be revealed with time!

Thats quite funny, i haven't made up my "narrow little mind" at all, i think they fully "could" have done it, however a jury found them not guilty, and i've simply been trying to provide a different point of view to the witch hunt who refuse to beleave anything else other than what they have been spoon fed (see "narrow little minds")

I fail to see how being open to the chance that these guys may not have actually commited the crime they were "accused" of as being narrow minded, i belive they have done it in the past and could have done it in this case, but i also belive that LN's history of laying 7 different rape charges against different people a little suspicious,

But if you choose to discount one persons history as evidence and concentrate on anothers as damning evidence then thats your "view"

[Damon]

Salient points from the most low gutter press heap of shit yet imo Damon Allow me to comment on this repulsive twisting article

Wow, all i have to do is present a differnt point of view and provide a news article from the national paper, that i didn't even write and i'm the "most low gutter press heap of shit yet"

Name calling really shows how rationaly your thinking about this, so i'm going to leave you alone, good luck in life, you'll need it

[spudchucka]

Like I said before the Police Association isnt exactly coming out in support of rickards if there is the sightest doubt of rickards guilt within the Police Association they would be speaking up for him by now shurely

Not really, what he was accused of has nothing to do with a situation where he was in lawful execution of his duties, its a matter of his extra-curricular activities coming back to bite him.

Also, the association has not been funding his defence in any way and it is probably just too much of a political hot potato for them to be overly vocal about it.

[ManDownUnder]

due to repressive defamation laws.

and to negate the possibility of someone feeling hard done by (for what ever other reason) launching a "me too" attack on them without actually being responsible for the results of their words.

If they have nothing to lose, why wold they not do it? Just as some in here are quite heated about what is actually hearsay. No doubt the info at hand is from a trusted source, but it is still heresay and we all know how Chinese whispers work.

My primary concern is that justice is done. Look at my signature block for God's sake. Justice cannot be done if we hang draw and quarter everyone we suspect of a crime. they must be tried and found guilty before anything punative can be invoked.

If that doesn't happen, the person charged cops it for a whole bunch of stuff they weren't found guilty of, and possibly didn't do. There's also the not so insignificant possibility the wrong person was bailed up, and the real crim is still out there.

Not so good really...

The justice system is not perfect. But it's the best we have and rather than winge about the details we can only specualte on in the CR case... why not find the faults in the system and attack those who are in a position to do something about them

[idleidolidyll]

Here's a perspective from a jurors POV:

Not long ago I served on a jury where a middle aged man was accused of molesting a girl aged 11 or 12 (not rape but 'touching').

The evidence came down to his word against hers. Even though there were 2 other adults and several other children present in the house when the offence(s) were alledgedly committed, no eye witnesses were offered.

The prosecution wanted the jury to prosecute based on emotion (the teary statements of the girl) and the defence wanted to defend based on evidence (or lack thereof).

In the end, the judge, when instructing the jury, told us that in NZ, people must be PROVEN guilty and do NOT need to prove their innocence. He also instructed us that we must be sure that the evidence presented was sufficient to prove guilt "beyond a reasonable doubt".

Given that the evidence was all her word against his, reasonable doubt DID exist and since no prior conviction was given as a perspective on the defendants personality, we had no option but to throw out the case because of lack of evidence. Every juror agreed that we did NOT know that the man was guilty or innocent but we DID know that there was not enough evidence to convict beyond a reasonable doubt.

(posted on a similar thread)

[Goblin]

Thats quite funny, i haven't made up my "narrow little mind" at all, i think they fully "could" have done it, however a jury found them not guilty, and i've simply been trying to provide a different point of view to the witch hunt who refuse to beleave anything else other than what they have been spoon fed (see "narrow little minds")

I fail to see how being open to the chance that these guys may not have actually commited the crime they were "accused" of as being narrow minded, i belive they have done it in the past and could have done it in this case, but i also belive that LN's history of laying 7 different rape charges against different people a little suspicious,

But if you choose to discount one persons history as evidence and concentrate on anothers as damning evidence then thats your "view"

Yeah sorry 'bout that...got a little hot under the collar.
The jury only found them not guilty because so much of the evidence was suppressed. Since LN is not the only one to bring charges about, how does that make her suspicious? She was raped, used and abused by certian police from her early teens and has been fighting this for more years than the average joe public know. She and the other women coming foward are NOT lying. A group of former Rotorua cops used, abused their position of authority to comit some heinous crimes against young women. FACT! It's common knowlege that our justice system is pretty fucked up and these cops have used this system to their advantage. Believe me, there will be more women who will come foward with similar allegations as they didn't stop at three! Some victims of these mongrels are now mature enough to be able to come foward and tell their stories. I can only hope any future cases get the right result.

Candor was not calling you "the low gutter press heap of shit" I think she was refering to the harold article....which is!

[Damon]

Yeah sorry 'bout that...got a little hot under the collar.
The jury only found them not guilty because so much of the evidence was suppressed. Since LN is not the only one to bring charges about, how does that make her suspicious? She was raped, used and abused by certian police from her early teens and has been fighting this for more years than the average joe public know. She and the other women coming foward are NOT lying. A group of former Rotorua cops used, abused their position of authority to comit some heinous crimes against young women. FACT! It's common knowlege that our justice system is pretty fucked up and these cops have used this system to their advantage. Believe me, there will be more women who will come foward with similar allegations as they didn't stop at three! Some victims of these mongrels are now mature enough to be able to come foward and tell their stories. I can only hope any future cases get the right result.

Candor was not calling you "the low gutter press heap of shit" I think she was refering to the harold article....which is!

The thing if find suspicious is the first time these 4 people (LN and the Boys) came into the spotlight is when they testified against her when she accused another policeman in 1994, there has been no mention at that time that "hey these guys raped me too, this is a cover up" or they wern't all on trial, LN was in the emotional state to be able to take one cop to court why not all? and then there's the wait after that trial, she spoke to one policeman who looked into her new claims and dismissed them, and it wasn't untill 2001-2002? that it came up again and was acted on, i cant claim to know what she was thinking at the time but if i was raped by cops and then waited 8 or 9 years to complain and get it to court i would be taking them all to court not waiting a further 12 years to try again, but i'm not her, it just doesn't make sense to me.

There's also all the other accusations she has made, either she's had the most fucked up life ever and been attacked by atleast 7 different people/groups, or there are some non-truths in there somewhere which puts a shadow over them all.

as for Candor. "Salient points from the most low gutter press heap of shit yet imo Damon", seems pretty direct, i don't want to take it any further before i'm in court for being the great evil behind mass media.