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Thread: Unlawful violation

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    Unlawful violation

    There has been, of late, some criticism for the way the justice system in this country has handled historical sexual violation cases. Notably in the Rickards, Schollum and Shipton trial. This is not about their guilt or innocence. If you want to debate that please go to the thread here. Sexual violation or rape is a particularly horrendous crime and when committed by a pack moreso (if that is possible). It has emerged that there is yet another case pending investigation against Rickards and the other 2 are currently serving time for rape. Does this cause rape to go unreported? Or is it because the people who commit this disgusting cowardly crime instill a fear of belief in the people they rape? "No-one will believe me." or "They won't get convicted (and then he'll come back)"

    I know of a couple of women who, in their words would say they had, "traumatic experiences" or words to that effect. They won't say they've been raped, at least not out loud. I've seen the effect this has had on them, on their relationships, their demeanor, even their careers. In short these womens' lives have been affected in every way.

    It's easy. Just go to the cops and tell them how you've been degraded. Tell them how you've been forced to submit to being violated. Just stand up and have the courage to answer the question in court "Are you sure you weren't mistaken?" Yeah because that's 'easy' just as their defence will say about you.
    Do not let it go unreported. These criminals need to be brought to justice, regardless of station, position or community standing.

    I am not a small man. I could hold a person against their will. I can only imagine what it would be like for someone to be held, unable to resist or fight the indecencies that these mongrels commit. It sickens me to my core. But I have not had it happen to me. I cannot know what that is like.

    All that I have said is not to discourage you to come forward it is meant to show you are not alone. You will be believed and supported. If you do not have the courage to talk to the police directly then check here or phone rape crisis: 09 360 4001(office) 09 360 4004(crisis). If you are in immediate danger call 111.

    I have written this because there are too many victims out there, who have not said anything. If you do not reply but do get someone to help you then these words have helped. Guys this is not about lynching anyone (as much as we'd all like to), this about encouraging those that need our help. Rape is a dirty word, the victims aren't.
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  2. #2
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    Blah

    Well said Colapop

    I saw the words "unlawful Violation" and your name next to it... had to laugh.. then I read the post...

    There are too many false accusations from women just excersing their rights and using the biased views of gender from society; and then using it to their advantage.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colapop View Post
    ...Do not let it go unreported. These criminals need to be brought to justice, regardless of station, position or community standing.
    This is most important thing. Report such events at the earliest opportunity, and preferably while there is still physical evidence. As more time passes between the events and the reporting, there is also more scope for people to start disbelieving that anything untoward occured. However, even reporting it years later will still damage the accused's reputation, even if a conviction is no longer possible.
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    Yes Colapop. The word 'rape' is hard for victims to use. It immediately brings shock, horror and negative judgments. From many guys an instant kneejerk reaction such as...

    "There are too many false accusations from women just excersing their rights and using the biased views of gender from society; and then using it to their advantage." - Disco Dan

    It may not always be spoken (as above) but it often is thought or in the subtext of any given 'feedback' so women tread carefully re disclosure.

    Would such attitudes be hurled at women who claimed their credit card was stolen?

    Look at the few women to 'come out' as ex victims on recent threads. I don't believe many have said "I was raped" or 'someone raped me'.

    Only 'I had a bad experienc'e or it is referred to indirectly eg It know such a trial is the worst thing you can go through.

    There is no social permission to call a spade a spade. The word is traumatic to both use and to hear.

    The fact that in the first 5 minutes of cop contact when I laid my complaint (about 30 minutes after being raped while shocked shaking etc) my initial statement was "I was attacked" before I soon after elaborated in more detail - was held against me by the defense in the Kangaroo Court.

    "But you did not say you were raped initially - you said you were attacked".

    Implication being that the 'story' just got bigger and bigger.

    Did not matter I said "I was attacked" and then went on to elaborate a very short time later after a cup of tea and trying to find some clothes at the house I ran to, as I was in a sheet they provided.

    To this day I fail to see how "rape" does not fall under the umbrella of attack.

    Funny how people feel no fear or shame about using the words "I was robbed / bashed / slandered" etc

    About the only other one that is a bit taboo is "I was conned". Its really horrible how the world wishes victims of rape would stay invisible. If they mention it or get involved in the issue either to help victims or politically they are seen as radical feminist lesbians with mental problems.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by candor View Post
    Yes Colapop. The word 'rape' is hard for victims to use. It immediately brings shock, horror and negative judgments.

    About the only other one that is a bit taboo is "I was conned". Its really horrible how the world wishes victims of rape would stay invisible. If they mention it or get involved in the issue either to help victims or politically they are seen as radical feminist lesbians with mental problems.
    I feel for your situation, but you are being unfair to the rest of us. Nobody I know would ever wish that rape victims would stay invisible, or think less of a woman for revealing it had happened. Many do have a knee jerk reaction of shock horror etc, but the normal reason for this is not knowing how else to react.
    Please realise and understand that I would never, and I do not think anyone I know would ever put down, humiliate, disbelieve or fail to help a woman in distress (or a man) or who was in this situation.
    I feel for you but please do not paint the rest of humanity with that brush.

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    Thankyou for your posting Candor. Right on the money. An important insight for all of us.
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    Quote Originally Posted by candor View Post
    "But you did not say you were raped initially - you said you were attacked".....

    To this day I fail to see how "rape" does not fall under the umbrella of attack.....
    Rape is usually a form of Attack, except in the cases of Statutary Rape where it is sometimes the female who initiates it. In your case Candor it sounds like you did everything right, and I hope the bastard who did it to you got lots of jail time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by candor View Post
    From many guys an instant kneejerk reaction such as... [Disco Dan Quote]
    I feel I should retort...

    My post reflects false acusations rather than implying most cases are false.

    As a student teacher I have to be mindful of placing myself in such situations where the risk of acuasations would be increased, I simply wished to place a small spot light on the fact some women use this system to their advantage for financial/retaliation reasons.

    Women already use their bodies to their advantage on a daily basis, and some have dropped so low as to cry wolf with rape when they find themselves in a situation.

    In today's politically correct society, i would not be surprised if couples would soon be asked to sign a form, officially consenting to sexual activity.
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    Ok that was a generalisation Mack. And you're prolly right that most people just don't know WTF to say if the subject is raised. But there are some idiots around.

    No Jantar. It was acquitted in 88 as apparently I lied not him.
    Fact - he (a brief acquaintance) broke in, kidnapped me and transported me elsewhere, used knife to intimidate and claimed before I escaped when he in lou that he 'had a few days for this before the Mrs got back" - which is what put the rocket under me to try getting out of the locked place when I did.
    Cops said based on his record twas lucky I did make the break then. I actually considered diving thru a large plate window as could see no opening one.

    But he was convicted re another (even worse) case a couple years later and got about 4 years in max security. I believe that triggered his wife to ditch him. She approached me once to ask what happened before court, I stupidly said "find out in court" and walked away. Unfortunately too much was suppressed in court so she did not really find out. And after I refused to speak to her I was harrassed by her mates and assorted thugs any time I was out in public. Obviously I left town.

    At trial she was displaying a big bump to arouse sympathy from the jury. So I guess you could say that by laying charges I bought a rapists kid in to the world!

    When he was in max security for his later crime I visited him as it seemed a safe place to ask why? He told me he is an animal tho that is not what he projects because (implied) he is clever. He said it was how he was raised and he feels no guilt (not in those exact words). Seemed to feel he was special for being 'different' ie a high up gang member. Said he was in anger management, as it made him angry that people would bring charges against him. It would be funny if not so scary and screwed up!

    Two guards stood outside as they said his rage level made him a danger so be careful how I talked. Well he is out now - is 53, so I hope is not still on the prowl. Oh he also blamed the fact some "chic" gave him rolies (pills that make you aggro) and 'egged him on' to go get me. I'd forgotten that.

  10. #10
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    Man Alive non violence help / counseling
    http://manalive.org.nz/index.htm

    Man links for other help places
    http://manalive.org.nz/links.htm Includes mensline number

    Sex-offender treatment
    This is provided for free to some motivated offenders who receive custodial and non-custodial sentences. In the prisons treatment is provided by staff, and in the community it is normally provided by specialists under contract. New Zealand has established high-standard treatment programmes. There are three large community-based programmes in Auckland (SAFE), Wellington (STOP) and Christchurch(STOP). There are smaller programmes in Hamilton (STEPS) and Nelson (STOP). In addition, there are two effective prison programmes in Auckland (Te Piriti) and in CHCH (Kia Marama).

    How hard would it be to seek help if you were an offender currently ?!?!
    Rhetorical question, hopefully. If not expert help can help it stop.

  11. #11
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    It is important that if you have had been the victim of an assault, attack or been violated that you seek help. Have the courage to speak up, even if you don't think it will help.

    Predominantly men's attitudes to this sort of crime need to change. It has already been expressed here that it could be women crying wolf. Yes it happens. But there are so many more cases that go unreported for the fear of being treated as though they are making it up.

    Huge respect for you Candor. Not only does it take courage to report what happened but to go through the case and to be able to talk about it makes you a legend in my book. Thanks.
    They shall not grow old as we that are left grow old.
    Age shall not weary them nor the years condemn.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colapop View Post
    There has been, of late, some criticism for the way the justice system in this country has handled historical sexual violation cases.
    PLease don't refer to it as "the justice system". It's a legal system, based on law, not justice. Occasionally it is just, but not often.
    ... and that's what I think.

    Or summat.


    Or maybe not...

    Dunno really....


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    Quote Originally Posted by candor View Post
    Man Alive non violence help / counseling
    http://manalive.org.nz/index.htm

    Man links for other help places
    http://manalive.org.nz/links.htm Includes mensline number

    Sex-offender treatment
    This is provided for free to some motivated offenders who receive custodial and non-custodial sentences. In the prisons treatment is provided by staff, and in the community it is normally provided by specialists under contract. New Zealand has established high-standard treatment programmes. There are three large community-based programmes in Auckland (SAFE), Wellington (STOP) and Christchurch(STOP). There are smaller programmes in Hamilton (STEPS) and Nelson (STOP). In addition, there are two effective prison programmes in Auckland (Te Piriti) and in CHCH (Kia Marama).

    How hard would it be to seek help if you were an offender currently ?!?!
    Rhetorical question, hopefully. If not expert help can help it stop.
    Run out of bling for you - but not respect... huge post - that's 2 I've seen in this one thread.


    Quote Originally Posted by Colapop View Post
    It is important that if you have had been the victim of an assault, attack or been violated that you seek help. Have the courage to speak up, even if you don't think it will help.

    Predominantly men's attitudes to this sort of crime need to change. It has already been expressed here that it could be women crying wolf. Yes it happens. But there are so many more cases that go unreported for the fear of being treated as though they are making it up.

    Huge respect for you Candor. Not only does it take courage to report what happened but to go through the case and to be able to talk about it makes you a legend in my book. Thanks.
    Bang on the money dude...

    This thread's giving me shivers... I personally know 4 people that'd experienced "sexual violation" in it's various forms - I'm not going to elaborate - it's not my place to either "out them".

    What I can say is this - I've seen, first hand the effects of this nature of event a couple of times. My enduring frustration is that it was always (significantly) after the fact. I've not had the opportunity to do anything about preventing it. Those that know me will understand I'm not prone to violence... at all. I'm about the biggest pushover here, but seeing or hearing anything approaching this would do it.

    I'm not sure if it can be plainly stated enough. Victims of sexual violation, in any form, are just that - victims. They must have our help and support.

    I personally do not (and will never) see those people as "dirty", "lowly", "undignified", "deserving", "sluts", or any of the other labels that I know victims can sometimes assume. The people I know are all (ALL) high functioning individuals who should have the world at their feet, not on their shoulders. They are dignified, and they retain their dignity in my eyes. People don't lose my respect if they're robbed, shot, or injured in an accident. They maintain every ounce of it. They're also entitled to some help while they're down. I promise you... having gone through a major experience and come out the other side - you'll be walking tall, prouder than ever, and keen to help those that are currently down what the future holds when they get there.

    Strangely, I look up to them in a way. I see them working through a battle which must be a hell of a challenge.

    Anyone... hinting at, or confiding in you they are a victim must be taken seriously. I can understand it's not an easy thing to begin to address... so when the first clues start to appear, or are presented to you - take them very very seriously. The flags should go up. I'm willing to bet there are a number of people on KB that have experienced this kind of horror in their own lives, and I'd put $1000 on the fact most of us know someone that's affected (whether you realise it or not - it's not like they're wearing a sign).

    To the victims of sexual assault, in whatever form, I say this
    You are not alone. Find help as Col so very kindly pointed out. Find a survivor and speak to them. hey've been through it, and if they're able, they will probably help point you in the right direction for assistance.

    You are not dirty. What happened is not of your choosing - it was the opposite. You have not been soiled like a paper bag to be thrown on the heap. You are a human being, with all the rights to respect, love and a bright strong future - like everyone else.

    You can survive this. I happens, and it takes time. So give it time, but start the journey. Take one day at a time, and put one put in front of the other. Keeping it under wraps is going to hurt you... it won't go away. Honestly - it doesn't. It'll stay there under cover, for years... you may even think it's dealt with and gone... and it'll pop up and just rock your world.

    Start the healing, find support, find help, and do things at your pace. Find someone you trust and have them help you, guide you, and listen to you.

    In a situation like this it can sometimes help to walk in the shoes of the other... imagine you're a counsellor, calm, relaxed and able to help... what would you advise a rape victim to do? What would opinion of them be?

    You know mine.
    Last edited by ManDownUnder; 5th March 2007 at 10:03.
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    Quote Originally Posted by candor View Post
    About the only other one that is a bit taboo is "I was conned". Its really horrible how the world wishes victims of rape would stay invisible. If they mention it or get involved in the issue either to help victims or politically they are seen as radical feminist lesbians with mental problems.
    Agree with Mack on this one... I personally don't see it that way at all. I understand it can be bloody difficult to speak about it, and anyone with the guts to do it has my complete backing.
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    Without trying to make light of the subject - is there sucha thing as "lawful violation"?
    Maybe that applies when the perp is a cop...
    it's not a bad thing till you throw a KLR into the mix.
    those cheap ass bitches can do anything with ductape.
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