What's the difference between a shovel-head and an iron-head?

**Wired1** · 18th March 2007, 11:16

Can some please explain the difference between the different harley engine evolutions - ie pan head, iron, shovel, evo etc. And I'd like some opinions on the older motors in terms of reliability, ease of maintenance and cost of parts if you know. Thanks...

**scumdog** · 18th March 2007, 11:33

Big blocks - Flathead, Knuckle-head, Pan-head, Shovel-head, Evolution, Twin-cam

Sportsters - Flathead, Iron-head, Evolution

An Ironhead is a Sportster equivalent of the 'bib' Harleys Shovel-head.

Some heads will interchange in the 'big' Harley range but not between Sportsters and 'big' Harleys. (Stand to be corrected on this but true to my knowledge).

**boomer** · 18th March 2007, 11:38

one looks like a shovel the other looks like an iron. they both have in common that they're form old peoples bikes.

**scumdog** · 18th March 2007, 12:11

Originally Posted by boomer

one looks like a shovel the other looks like an iron. they both have in common that they're form old peoples bikes.

Yup, both almost older than any known Jap bike..

And did you mean 'from'?

**Ixion** · 18th March 2007, 12:16

Harley nomenclature has always seemed incomprehensibly confusing.

I assume a flathead is a sidevalve? The others are OHV ? And an ironhea presumably because it is cast iron ?

So what are the approximate ages of each "era" ?

**scumdog** · 18th March 2007, 12:24

Originally Posted by Ixion

Harley nomenclature has always seemed incomprehensibly confusing.

I assume a flathead is a sidevalve? The others are OHV ? And an ironhea presumably because it is cast iron ?

So what are the approximate ages of each "era" ?

Yep re the flat-head stuff - all hot-rod and motorbike types into 'old-stuff'refer to a side-valve as a 'flathead' .

An Iron-head? yep, because it's cast iron.

But the age-brackets of each? - you're on your own and need to google them, I know most but likely to get one or two a year or so out - and then hooo-boy! the KB pedants will home in for the kill!!

**Ixion** · 18th March 2007, 12:43

Hah. I actually found a site that explains it reasonably simply.

So, in essence:

Pre 1936 : Side valves. Flathead
1936 to 1948 : Cast iron OHV heads. Knucklehead, ironhead
1948 to 2001: Alloy head OHV. Panhead, shovelhead, evolution
2001 on : OHC.

Now, that simplifies the mystery muchly.

Now all I have to work out is the whole Fatboy, Lowboy, Tallboy, Fatbob, Shortbob, Wetbob, Road King, Road Queen stuff.

**Wired1** · 18th March 2007, 12:51

What a mine of information thanks.
So what's with the AMF era bikes? I'm looking at a '78 panhead 1000 sporty and have heard that this is not the best age Harley to buy. Any thoughts? biased opinions welcome...

**scumdog** · 18th March 2007, 13:22

Originally Posted by Wired1

What a mine of information thanks.
So what's with the AMF era bikes? I'm looking at a '78 panhead 1000 sporty and have heard that this is not the best age Harley to buy. Any thoughts? biased opinions welcome...

Hmm, had an AMF 1000cc Ironhead m'self, a 1981, probably one of the last AMFs.

Thought it was 'modern' at the time, little did I know!! (But it WAS a Harley!).

Yes, when AMF had the reins of Harley they were more concerned with output than quality so their product tended to be rife with problems and a mix-up of parts.

Having said that, by now any AMF problems would have shown and been sorted, chances are the bike has already been rebuilt at least once.

Go for it if the bike tests out ok and the price is right - but don't expect to be able to flog it - or get it to stop in a hurry.

**Edbear** · 18th March 2007, 13:53

The descriptions were also based on the appearance of the motors. What the rocker covers reminded people of, eg. Panhead, knucklehead, etc.

The Evo's were said to be the first of the "reliable" motors, whereby an owner could expect a consistent level of reliability and "useability" from a Harley. It was the Evo motors that turned the corner for Harley Davidson and began bringing the bikes into the mainstream markets. Check some of the mileages of Evo Harleys, they have done some big miles.

I still reckon Harley's are too dear, but then they do tend to hold their prices well. My favourite is the 1200 Sporty with the twin discs. But my head says I did the right thing with the C50T and I do love riding it, it's a "feel good" bike! One day when I'm rich...

**scumdog** · 18th March 2007, 15:27

Originally Posted by Edbear

I still reckon Harley's are too dear, but then they do tend to hold their prices well. My favourite is the 1200 Sporty with the twin discs. But my head says I did the right thing with the C50T and I do love riding it, it's a "feel good" bike! One day when I'm rich...

Then have I got the bike for you - 1200, twin disc front, top order, looks like new.

Oh, of course, it's an Evo.............

**pete376403** · 18th March 2007, 20:00

deleted post -

**sunhuntin** · 18th March 2007, 22:23

my partners got a shovel and a pan [65 pan, 83 shovel] love em both...ive pillioned on a few harleys, and the shovel would be my favourite. followed close by the pan. i just love the look! im dying to eventually by his ol pan. tis a little to short in the seat to fit two, but the shovel had heaps of room.

both are full dressers....effectively he taught me how to safely load a bike for travel. the pan he wrecked 12 years ago, and that gave it a speed wobble in the front end, but i think that could be sorted out.

most harley dealers wont touch anything older than an evo, meaning the aftermarket parts are an essential for maintaining.
i remember a friend of his brought over a shovel engine that needed internal work done. the nearest dealer wouldnt touch it. he damn near set the house on fire taking a blow torch to it! turned out the bolt [?] had a left hand thread.. which was only discovered after cutting, griding, and otherwise wrecking the part. lol.

when i get a harley...itll be as old as possible. ideally a 65 pan, full dresser.

**Shadows** · 18th March 2007, 22:28

Originally Posted by Wired1

Can some please explain the difference between the different harley engine evolutions - ie pan head, iron, shovel, evo etc. And I'd like some opinions on the older motors in terms of reliability, ease of maintenance and cost of parts if you know. Thanks...

Originally Posted by Wired1

What a mine of information thanks.
So what's with the AMF era bikes? I'm looking at a '78 panhead 1000 sporty and have heard that this is not the best age Harley to buy. Any thoughts? biased opinions welcome...

There is one very simple thing to remember. Trust me on this.
Unless you are very very rich....
DO NOT, WHATEVER YOU DO, BUY AN IRONHEAD SPORTSTER!

Get a 5 speed Evo or later. Something from the '90s or 00's. As little as only a couple of grand dearer than the piece of shite you are considering and it won't cost you another $5K to bring it up to scratch. Unless it is a rarity, and I'm talking rocking horse shit with hens' teeth in it topped off with snowballs from hell rare, it will need it.

Most bike shops won't want to know about it, either.