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Thread: How to remove a helmet from an injured rider

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blondini View Post
    18 secs without oxygen will cause damage
    I can hold my breath for thirty seconds and do it regulary. I guess this explains a few things. lol
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blondini View Post
    18 secs without oxygen will cause damage
    I did a British Red Cross First Aid course last week and they've totally changed the CPR technique since I last did the course a year ago. Research has shown that the chest compressions are the important part of the CPR procedure, not the breaths in to the (not breathing) casualty.

    They now recommend 30 chest compressions (at a rate of 100 per minute) followed by 2 short breaths in to the casualty, but if getting the breaths in to the casualty is problematic, forget the breaths and focus on the compressions non-stop, until the emergency help arrives and tells you that they'll take over.

    The reason for the change is that they now believe that the oxygen circulating round the body is good for in the region of 4-5 minutes.

    Of course, the chest compressions could well make any spinal injuries worse, but their take on it is not to make a judgement call on whether you would want to survive the same injuries or not, your role is that of a life saver so you have to do all you can.
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  3. #33
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    Smile How things have changed over the years

    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Tony View Post
    I did a British Red Cross First Aid course last week and they've totally changed the CPR technique since I last did the course a year ago. Research has shown that the chest compressions are the important part of the CPR procedure, not the breaths in to the (not breathing) casualty.

    They now recommend 30 chest compressions (at a rate of 100 per minute) followed by 2 short breaths in to the casualty, but if getting the breaths in to the casualty is problematic, forget the breaths and focus on the compressions non-stop, until the emergency help arrives and tells you that they'll take over.

    The reason for the change is that they now believe that the oxygen circulating round the body is good for in the region of 4-5 minutes.

    Of course, the chest compressions could well make any spinal injuries worse, but their take on it is not to make a judgement call on whether you would want to survive the same injuries or not, your role is that of a life saver so you have to do all you can.
    Well said Tony. I read an article here recently that mentioned the same changes to CPR as you described. I think that St. Johns will probably update their techniques to match quite soon. I have been attending work related rescue Breathing/CPR courses since 1969. It is amazing to see the changes in procedures over the years.

    I was always told at First Aid courses to leave the helmet on, unless the person was unconscious and having breathing difficulties. If that is the case, then it comes off. Anyone who wants to argue will get the following choices:

    That is your partner/family member in difficulties, I can do either of two things;

    1. Leave them as they are, gasping for breath (imagine being 50km+ from an ambulance depot)

    2. Carefully remove their helmet, despite the slight additional risk of creating spinal damage, and carry out Rescue Breathing if required. Also by removing the helmet, as the head tilts back a little further, you will open the airway up more.

    I'm sure that most people would prefer option 2.
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  4. #34
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    Thanks for this post, my mum had just come back from a first aid course and didn't think to ask about it, so we were wondering what the best thing to do with helmets was.
    Hopefully we never have to use it, but I will show her this post and have a go at helmet removal tonight.
    Keep safe!

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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhino View Post

    That is your partner/family member in difficulties, I can do either of two things;

    1. Leave them as they are, gasping for breath (imagine being 50km+ from an ambulance depot)

    2. Carefully remove their helmet, despite the slight additional risk of creating spinal damage, and carry out Rescue Breathing if required. Also by removing the helmet, as the head tilts back a little further, you will open the airway up more.

    I'm sure that most people would prefer option 2.
    no. 2 for sure!

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  6. #36
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    One of those techniques that you hope will never be used!

    Found a good video on YouTube:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JWiw0HFpDo
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  7. #37
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    Great helmet info, always wondered about how to do it! Will now need to practice! As a diabetic I'm not accepted as a blood donor as I stick things into myself! Feel a bit guilty as a rider as I could need blood one day (heaven forbid). So will someone who's not giving blood at the moment nip down and leave 600ml for the cause? Cheers

  8. #38
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    Once in a while someone comes up with a truly exceptional idea.

    This is one of them:

    http://www.hatsoffusa.com/helmet_kit.htm

    At the price it's a no brainer, anyone know if they're available in NZ?
    Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon

  9. #39
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    Not sure if I like that. Ya don't know what the damage is like on top the head where the inflater is putting pressure on to "assist" the removal of the helmet. Ya still need to have someone that knows what they are doing to remove the helmet. Still a good idea, but would like to hear what the Medics on here think about it.
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  10. #40
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    Thanks for thread.

    Top info here. A few comments:
    - As already mentioned, remember the ABC!
    - CPR is done to pump the blood around to provide oxygen to the brain (and vital organs) when the heart has stopped . The Hollywood thingy where someone starts spluttering as a result of CPR is just that, a Hollywood thingy. So if U start doing CPR, keep going until help arrives or U run out of steam.
    - Your first aid certificate is only valid for 2 years then U need to do a refresher course. One reason is that things change (as mentioned here).

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  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakie View Post
    We had quite a good discussion about this at the First Aid course I went too last week. Main points were:
    > Don't remove the helmet unless you have to.
    > If it has to come off then it's best to get the rider to take it off if they are able.
    > If the person has stopped breathing or is vomiting then having a viable airway is more important than a possible neck injury (you can live with a neck injury but you can't without an airway)
    > An existing neck injury is just that ... existing. Possibly the damage you are worried about causing has already been done.
    Absolutely spot on!

    I'd seriously recommend that if you can go on some kind of "First aid for motorcyclists" course, then you do. I went on a course over here, run by St John Ambulance - and they taught us how to remove a helmet (as well as putting people in the recovery position and how to administer CPR).

    And removing a helmet was truly bloody scary.

    We all took turns at being 'the victim', being the person supporting the head and the one removing the helmet. And boy does it teach you how difficult it is to do. When I was 'the victim', admittedly I think the helmet I was wearing was a size too small, but even with the other two being as careful as possible, my head was still getting tugged about.

    Despite it being non-life threatening and our just practicing, we were all sweating at the end.

    Big thing to bear in mind. If they're awake and they're making a noise, then they're well enough to survive. It is the ones that aren't moving or making a sound you worry about first.

    Well, after ensuring your own safety of course. No good charging in like Arnie, only to get yourself in trouble and add to the situation.
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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by XP@ View Post
    I got up told them to pretend i was still there and keep working on me. I wandered over to the instructor and told him the class was trying to revive a corpse, oh, and have you got anything for a strained neck?
    Mmm, depressing. I've always found the variation in First Aid training to be a bit worrying. A lot of people seem to come away with their little certificate thinking that they're ready for E.R.

    In a more amusing probably less harmful way, twice I've been the the "accidentee" and helpful passers-by have tried to to stop me from taking my own helmet off.

    "Look, mate, I'm standing up... I just pushed my bike to the side of the road!"

    Stickers with I.C.E instructions would be a good thing on a lid
    My first thought was "Yes! What a great idea!"

    And then I remembered how many people I've seen walk face first into a door that says "PULL".

    I'm not sure anyone would read a sticker on the side of a helmet if they were kneeling on the ground next to a potentially dying biker, feverishly wondering what to do, with that received wisdom ("NEVER take the helmet off, their brains might fall out!") at the front of their minds.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by XP@ View Post
    Stickers with I.C.E instructions would be a good thing on a lid
    The I.C.E idea has been around for a little while, a very good thing from what I can see.

    If someone has had an accident there may be some info that helps the medics like alergies to medicines etc that the victim may not be in a position to give.

    My lady was in a very serious accident last year, she was able to give my cell phone number to the people on the scene as she was concious but this is not always the case.
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  14. #44
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    That info's on my phone (next of kin, blood type etc) but I don't know if the medic's would look for it there.

    Wonder if a "SEE PHONE" sticker on the visor would be a good idea.
    Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon

  15. #45
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    [QUOTE=Ocean1;1105057]That info's on my phone (next of kin, blood type etc) but I don't know if the medic's would look for it there.[\QUOTE]

    I'm showing myself for the ignoramus that I am; I assumed that by I.C.E. instructions we were talking about a summary of when to take off the helmet.

    This re-neducated me:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_case_of_emergency

    Sounds sensible. I'll stick those details in my phone right now...

    Wonder if a "SEE PHONE" sticker on the visor would be a good idea.
    Heh.

    I once thought about getting dog tags, but seeing as I've never served in any service other than the cub scouts, it seemed a bit wannabe, coulda been in the SAS me, etc.

    Maybe we should just get tattoos explaining which of the various previous injuries we're carrying are still relevant.


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