I'm not happy with Helen!

[idleidolidyll]

It already is, isn't it?
Courtesy of the National party mopping up what was left after Douglas and co shafted the country on behalf of their mates!People do have short memories - the last National regime cemented this country at the bottom of the financial pecking pile - or has everyone forgotten that!

No, many of remember that but sadly migrants and youth have to learn the lesson from the beginning.

National and ACT woiuld have us mimic the USA: a fascist nation in all but name controlled completely by corporate backhanders and the military

ALL parties are flawed but at least Labour is centrist rather than nationalist right wing warmongers.

Where's that political compass again............ahh, here it is:
http://www.politicalcompass.org/

Very interesting but go directly here to see where NZ's political parties fall on the 2 main political scales: http://www.politicalcompass.org/nz2005

note the position of ACT and National: extreme right wing

Now go here and take the political test yourself to identify where YOU fit on the same chart (that's where your real aleginces should lie): http://www.politicalcompass.org/questionnaire

I fall quite close to the Greens and frankly, that's how I vote too but I also use one of my votes against the right wing specifically; sometimes that means using one for Labour

[idleidolidyll]

Problem is that too many people forget the past and are easily manipulated by a few issues rather than looking at the overall values and social concious of political parties.

who are the right wing beholden to, the ordinary people or to the wealthy and corporations?

it sure as hell can't be the ordinary people given they drove real wages for this sector right down and their tax policies would INCREASE the burden on that sector and lighten it on the wealthy and corporates

[Pixie]

So far as Helen goes, I have 2 areas of concern. The first is that she has never had a real job and by a real job, I mean one that has contributed directly and immediately to the net wealth of NZ. In so far as I can see, she has been groomed for politics right from university.

Clark was first noted as a potential politician,when her girlfriend,Heather Simpson, realised she could manipulate her like a puppet when she had her hand up her.

[davereid]

Helen has also been responsible for the "boy racer" legislation. You may say "great", but what it does is deny you your day in court. ie if a Policeman says you skidded your tyres then away goes your car.

Its actually a very major change in way citizens interact with enforcement authorities, and a very major backward step in a country that professes a belief in a transparent and honest legal system.

And we won't even mention the zillions spent developing stratergies to introduce Toll roads and electronic vehicle tagging. After all, why bother the voter with such minor issues !

Hmm and a democracy that sees 90% support for the sensible sentencing trusts petition just ignored.

[SPman]

Helen has also been responsible for the "boy racer" legislation. You may say "great", but what it does is deny you your day in court. ie if a Policeman says you skidded your tyres then away goes your car.

Its actually a very major change in way citizens interact with enforcement authorities, and a very major backward step in a country that professes a belief in a transparent and honest legal system.

And we won't even mention the zillions spent developing stratergies to introduce Toll roads and electronic vehicle tagging. After all, why bother the voter with such minor issues !

Hmm and a democracy that sees 90% support for the sensible sentencing trusts petition just ignored.

Well - they have "boy racer" legislation over in Oz as well, the "anti hoon" laws!
Did she influence the local governments over here?
I think not!
Toll roads etc - get them all around the world.
Vehicle tagging? - the Poms are way ahead.
Sensible sentencing trust petition ignored - damn good thing! The number of people in NZ who think prisons are a holiday camp, never ceases to astound me. NZ'ers are second only to the Yanks, I think for throwing people into gaol - typical - get a problem and try and hide it so it goes away!
NZ gaols are not , generally pleasant places!

[idleidolidyll]

NZ'ers are second only to the Yanks, I think for throwing people into gaol -

not certain if we're that far up but sadly too many are in prison for the wrong 'crimes' just like in the US, mainly cannabis, and because they couldn't afford good lawyers while some of the really bad abusers, the white collar criminals and the murderers/rapists etc, seem to get relatively light sentences.

on that one i'm with the sensible sentencing people: throw murderers in prison forever but stop sending dope smokers and even some growers to prison for doing something way less harmful than drinking.

3 Royal Commissions / Govt Investigations have found our laws on cannabis to be ridiculous and more harmful than the weed itself.

That's what Nandor's compromise legislation was all about: he couldn't get house agreement to change the cannabis laws so he proposed a law that removed the police record and travel restirctions after a few years: one of THE most harmful things about the present policing of the law.

Yep, it aint particularly a Labour thing, it's an issue thing

as i've said, when it comes to parties, weigh the overall intent not any one or two policies.
who represents YOU? who represents THEM?

that's why I suggested taking this test: http://www.politicalcompass.org/questionnaire

it places you personally in relation to the parties.

[idleidolidyll]

To be fair, asking you to take that test without giving you my score is dishonest so here ya go:

Your political compass

Economic Left/Right: -6.63
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.23



that makes me a Greenie and yes, that's how i generally vote

[MisterD]

that's why I suggested taking this test: http://www.politicalcompass.org/questionnaire

it places you personally in relation to the parties.

Interesting, but flawed, I think....probably as reliable as those new-age-psychobabble personality tests some of those corporations you despise so much run on prospective employees.

I've just done it, and it put me slap in the middle on the y-axis and just to the left on the x....

[Lias]

I fall quite close to the Greens and frankly, that's how I vote too but I also use one of my votes against the right wing specifically; sometimes that means using one for Labour

We'll never agree on the politics, but I will agree that political compass is a far better way of defining pollitical views than the traditional left/right.

I'm very slightly left on the left/right axis(between NZ first & Maori), but i'm up past Destiny on the authoritarian/libertarian axis.

If you look at the German or British charts, I fall up around the National Democrats / BNP. Which is probably why we dont agree on most anything

[idleidolidyll]

Interesting, but flawed, I think....probably as reliable as those new-age-psychobabble personality tests some of those corporations you despise so much run on prospective employees.

I've just done it, and it put me slap in the middle on the y-axis and just to the left on the x....

everythings flawed but it's a damn sight more reliable than getting carried away with a couple of specific policies

the basis of the test is that the political parties were 'polled' (through media analysis) with the exact same questions: it is, in that way, a reality test

so you 'should' be voting Labour but you probably vote more right wing?

[idleidolidyll]

We'll never agree on the politics, but I will agree that political compass is a far better way of defining pollitical views than the traditional left/right.

I'm very slightly left on the left/right axis(between NZ first & Maori), but i'm up past Destiny on the authoritarian/libertarian axis.

If you look at the German or British charts, I fall up around the National Democrats / BNP. Which is probably why we dont agree on most anything

thanks for taking the test and having the balls to post it.
yes, we'll never agree on some politics but i am happy to have your opinion.

imo, the worst cases of abuse in govt occur not from the economic divide, left and right; but from the authoritarian divide.

the worst abusers have generally been authoritarian regardless of their economic position: hitler, mao, thatcher, bush versus the dalai lama, gandhi etc

that makes your position dangerous; things like "unitary executive" are merely other ways to say "dictator"

i understand why people want 'strength' in govt but sadly the strenght eventually becomes self interest and monoploy of power

[MisterD]

so you 'should' be voting Labour but you probably vote more right wing?

Yep. There must me a missing z axis...

[Lias]

the worst abusers have generally been authoritarian regardless of their economic position: hitler, mao, thatcher, bush versus the dalai lama, gandhi etc

Strangely I dont like mao or bush, but I think hitler did alot of good before he went mad, and I <3 Maggie Thatcher to pieces.. I think someone should take her DNA, Rob Muldoons DNA, mix it, and make the result the god-emperor of the universe

[idleidolidyll]

Yep. There must me a missing z axis...

i agree, it's not missing but it's often not visible

i call it the propaganda axis

[idleidolidyll]

Strangely I dont like mao or bush, but I think hitler did alot of good before he went mad, and I <3 Maggie Thatcher to pieces.. I think someone should take her DNA, Rob Muldoons DNA, mix it, and make the result the god-emperor of the universe

before they went mad............................i agree actually

same goes for Mao, Mugabe, Mahatir etc

Thatcher? Mate, I lived under thatcherism in the 80's. More to the point, I lived in Wales and SAW the violence that accompanied thatcherism

Muldoon though was actually quite liberal and 'left' at first (before HE went mad). He was kinds the antithesis of roger douglas