War?

[smoky]

Yea but maybe it stemed from christainity, because back in the day thats how politics worked, they revolved around religion just like still do in the middle east

Or maybe it steemed from the greed of men who used the greed of the established church hierarchy to control the ignorant masses and hold on to power. When people got educated they began to see the stupidity of the high church system - Actually contray to true faith taught in scriptures.

I'm not defending any fundermetalist - of any religion

[Quartermile]

Yea true, cos I know that back in 1 bc or whatever the priests told all the peasants that you must pay so much of your income (like tax) to got to heaven, which is oviously a crock of shit

[SixPackBack]

MODERATOR...........most of this shite needs the ol' PD shuffle.

[Lias]

There's a thin line between being an antisocial hippy basher, which is not that bad and being a redneck bogan'd nazi. Have you ever been to the Middle East, Lias? How many Arabs do you know? Would you know a Jew if you saw one without a Yarmulka? Now I am not the biggest fan of the Jews there's ever been. But they have my respect for what their contributions to science, the arts etc... Name what the A-rabs have given the world in the last thousand years.

There's a giant difference between jews, israelis, and zionists. All three are seperate categories. I've met plenty of jewish people I like and get on with. Doesnt mean I like Israel, or zionism.

Hell thou dont get me wrong I dont particularly like arabs either. I just think that Israel as a nation doesnt deserve to exist, and that zionists are just as bad as fundamentalist muslims or christians (its just that their are a hell of a lot of zionists in Israel).

I wouldnt really shed any tears if the arabs were nuked either, but I am kind of rooting for Iran atm, just because I like seeing people stand up to America & Israel.

[Hans]

There's a giant difference between jews, israelis, and zionists. All three are seperate categories. I've met plenty of jewish people I like and get on with. Doesnt mean I like Israel, or zionism.

Hell thou dont get me wrong I dont particularly like arabs either. I just think that Israel as a nation doesnt deserve to exist, and that zionists are just as bad as fundamentalist muslims or christians (its just that their are a hell of a lot of zionists in Israel).

I wouldnt really shed any tears if the arabs were nuked either, but I am kind of rooting for Iran atm, just because I like seeing people stand up to America & Israel.

Point taken, if not agreed upon.

[smoky]

There's a giant difference between jews, israelis, and zionists - (its just that their are a hell of a lot of zionists in Israel) "and that zionists are just as bad as fundamentalist muslims or christians"

Go figure .... ???? What do you think a zionist is!!

Israel as a nation doesnt deserve to exist,

And thats not racist or facist because......?

[Lias]

Go figure .... ???? What do you think a zionist is!!
And thats not racist or facist because......?

A zionist is somewhat who supports a jewish controlled state in jerusalem based on a religious belief, and created by force. A not insubstantial number of both jews and israelis are anti zionist, so being opposed to Zionism can hardly be called racist, but given you throwing in the facist as well its easy to see your just jumping on the "anyone who doesnt support zionism and israel 100% is a nazi" bandwagon.

Although I guess your facist comment could be about the way israel treats the palestinians...

[smoky]

A zionist is somewhat who supports a jewish controlled state in jerusalem based on a religious belief,

From my own experience and study; The modern concept people hold about Zionist ideology is largely divorced from it’s religious aspirations, and defensively has become about justification of Jews being a people or nation like any other. But the idea of "Zion," ("Tzyion" in Hebrew) is rooted deeply since the time of Abraham, in the belief of a hypothetical event that would occur with the coming of the Messiah at an unknown date in the far future. When the temple would be rebuilt - on 'the rock' the temple mount. And after an apocalyptical war Israel would become preeminent and be the dominate world government that the great ‘Almighty’ would use to rule the world.
The Church thru history, including modern evangelicals in the States, have always considered that the Jews had defaulted on this with the crucifixion of the said Messiah, and now sooner or later the Christians will assume this right of world government. Hense they are Zionists.
You’ll even find reference to this in the British Monarchy, Church of England and catholisim - they are all Zionists.

But even the Arabs and Muslim believe in their common ancestral right handed down from Abram to have their place of worship on the ‘Rock’ and sooner or later they will have the divine right to rule the world. They're Zionists as well.

so being opposed to Zionism can hardly be called racist, but given you throwing in the facist as well its easy to see your just jumping on the "anyone who doesnt support zionism and israel 100% is a nazi" bandwagon.

My comment was not about if you support or don't supporting Isreal, it was about the comment "Israel as a nation doesnt deserve to exist"
And I certainly wouldn't insult any one by calling them nazi.

If you beleive a whole nation hasn't got the right to exist - then surley thats rather facist? No!

Historical undisputed well documented fact; In the Bar Kochba revolt in 135AD, a large numbers of Jews were exiled from Roman Palestine, the remains of their ancient national home.

[doc]

Sorry guy's but as a KB'rholic, ok I'll get a bike one day. Don't want to be a "stick in the mud" But as I spend so much of my life here I don't get to watch the new's etc they watch other stuff. But I must stand up for myself as a man here I pay the bills[SIZE="2"]Tell me people what's happened to the troops this thread started off on. Secretly I'm a bit worried that, if the yanks pull out of Iraq, the Iranian's will take over the moment they pullout, and I'll have no petrol that I can afford anyway[SIZE]

[smoky]

I think they're spoilin for a fight my self.
Thats why they took them. provacation.

[BAD DAD]

A thing to consider is this: In the event of "Israel" being over-run,deleted, neutralized or whatever to the point that the "Palestinians" were given or seized control of the disputed territories, apart from the slaughter of many "Israelis" and the destruction of countless homes,schools and businesses, WHAT would change for the average "Palestinian". I reckon that nothing would be gained and in fact there would be anger at the loss of security and resentment from the Palestinians at the lack of personal freedom and control that they had hoped to gain but had in fact lost. They would be horrified to find themselves under the control of influences by other arab and muslim states but without the security of the Israelie military and sudden unemployment and loss of accsess to education and health facilities.
No matter what side you support, the Palestinians will suffer more at the end of Israel than they will under its control.

[MisterD]

So, back to the hostages. Watching the analysis on Sky UK, it's all a bit worrying the way that lass is being paraded by the Iranians.

The only thing I'm certain of right now, is that Garmin are getting some amazing free advertising...