Self-inflicted death

[Motoracer]

Hey everyone,

I would like to raise a few key points on Suicide, or in other words 'self-inflicted death' here in this thread tonight. You may think this is a bit off topic. Yes, it has nothing to do with motorcycles. However, with the ever increasing popularity of our wonderful website "Kiwibiker", I thought it would be a brilliant oppertunity to raise awareness on the topic.

A total of 515 people died in 2003 by suicide. That was a total of 11.5 deaths per 100,000 population! Now, we already have a lot of reasons for deaths around the country. Take the road death toll for instance, or deaths due to illnesses such as cancer or freak accidents etc. Do we really need more Kiwis dieing for 1 more reason? Obviously no. Eliminating the problem all together would be an unrealistic task at present times, however it is a goal we can work towards by doing what we can to minimise the chances of suicide occuring around us.

So, what can we do? We can learn to understand that this is a problem that is literally killing hundreds of people every year. It is a problem that can be delt with and lives can probably be saved with better awareness of the cause and symptoms of suicide. With better understanding, we might just help solve the problems leading to suicide, rather than just ignoring them.

So, what is suicide?

Suicide, by definition, is behaviour. It is an issue which generates apprehension, disbelief, fear and anger in many people, provoking strong attitudes, beliefs, and opinions.

Suicidal people are pre-occupied with plans for escape from the stresses in their life. The prospect of dying is seen as less threatening than ongoing torment. It is important to understand that people experiencing a suicidal crisis may not be thinking rationally.

Research has shown that over 90% of those making suicide attempts or dying by suicide may have a recognisable mental health problem, particularly depression.

There are ranges of suicidal behaviours. There is also a balance between the intention to live and the intention to die, and even what may appear to someone else to be minor, may tip the balance for the suicidal person. How powerful an event feels is deeply personal.
There are five aspects of suicidal behaviour

• suicidal thoughts
  A person doesn't become actively suicidal suddenly - the process is progressive. A person begins by thinking "It would be better if I weren't around". Never ignore what may be a message of a suicidal thought. The person needs to be listened to and taken seriously.
• suicidal threats.
  This is anything that a person says or does that indicates intent to self-harm. Suicidal threats are sometimes not recognised and can be overlooked. All threats should be taken seriously.
• suicidal gestures. These are generally regarded as extreme forms of communication calling attention to the person's plight. They can involve physical injury to oneself or others, or reckless behaviour like overdosing, alcohol abuse, dangerous driving. All are indicators of emotional distress and a cry for help. Not all such gestures however, can be interpreted as suicidal.
• attempted suicides. Attempted suicide is a serious and potentially lethal event. It can leave the person emotionally and/or physically devastated, possibly for the rest of their life.
• suicidal death is a tragic and final event and the result is the death of a human being

To help save lives, the book Suicide the Forever Decision, For those Thinking about Suicide and for Those who Know, Love and Counsel Them, by Paul Quinnett, Ph.D is available free online at http://www.qprinstitute.com/
note: both author and publisher wish the reader to know that this book does not offer mental health treatment, and in no way should be considered a substitute for consultation with a health professional

The piece of information quoted above is from http://www.spinz.org.nz/ website. Although the information above is a great introduction on the topic, please have a look on their website for additional information.

This thread is dedicated to an ex workmate. I had worked with him for about half a year and though I didn't know him very well as a person, the news of his self-inflicted death was still sad and very shocking. As a result of his death, I have become more aware of just being there for my friends when they are troubled and in need, emotionally . By creating this thread, I guess I am also attempting to have some kind of an effect on minimising sucided, as minimal as the effect may be.

Please feel free to express your thoughts and opinions and share some experiences and get a few positive ideas in the air.

Best Regards,
Sudeep.

[N4CR]

Shit... the main thing to think about for people that have got to that stage of consideration is THINK ABOUT THE IMPACT ON OTHERS. People will care, no matter how much you think they hate you or don't care. You will affect people, guranteed - making them feel sad and at fault.

Think before you act.

-Tristank

P.s. sorry to hear that sudeep, good to see you out there and posting about this too, alot of people keep it under the rug and it just sits there like a cancer. Communication is the best way to resolve these problems.

[Andrew]

Hey man good on you for raising awareness about this serious and very real topic. It seems suicide is becoming a larger problem in this country particularly around younger people. I was pleased to see that Australia will be funding $1b into mental health. Hopefully New Zeland can acknowledge this and take similar action.

[babyB]

I will admit this is the third time tonight i have had a tear in my eye with KB.
MR. I agree with you, the awareness needs to be raised about suicide.
As a *'survivor of suicide' one realizes how little understanding is out there, unless you have personal experienced it, people do not realize its not somethings that can be swept under the carpet. The pain never truly goes away. We always carry the 'what if s', 'if onlys' & buts even thought we know it wont change anything. Sometimes there seems to be no real closure, because some things can never be answered.

Isolation seems to be one of the things that make is hard for people contemplating suicide. They feel there is no one to talk to. or fear they will be locked up for feeling that way. Unless you know what all the possible signs are....you may be unaware & too late

Please take the time to read the site Motoracer has put up..... you may help to save a life

MR it is motorcycle related......
He made used his bike to commit suicide. RIP

*those bereaved by suicide (surviver of suicide)

[Str8 Jacket]

Ive had three best mates commit suicide over the last 10 years, one died in my arms. I still dont know what I could have done as all three of them didn't tell anyone they were depressed and all of them appeared happy up till the day they killed themselves. Everytime it happened it got harder but the only thing that I really learned was that there is nothing much you can do if someone really is serious about it.
When a close mate kills themselves its easy to feel a sense of guilt, "what could I have done" and "I should have been there for them" etc etc but at the end of the day there is nothing you can do. Over the years I worked through the pain etc and it was hard as a couple of them were my best mates that had lived in just about every foster home I had lived in, they died within a year of each other. Then 2 years a go a good mate and workmate of mine just walked out of work one Saturday afternoon and never returned. He hanged himself, left no note nothing. That was hard, we'll never know why he did it buty I guess thats not the point...
Suicide is a terrible thing and should be taken seriously, awareness needs to
be raised and support more readily available for families and for people going through such dark depression.
I just wish that someone had the answer.

[Edbear]

This is a hard one to deal with, as comments show it's not always apparent that someone is contemplating suicide. A suicidal person is not thinking rationally so it's not as simple as saying they should consider the effects on those they leave behind. In this day of broken homes, separation and divorce, drug abuse and alcoholism, child abuse, step-families, (I have a step-son, now 30), there are huge challenges to face and if one hasn't had a good upbringing in a loving close family where open communication is valued and skills are learned for coping with pressures, it is difficult to pass on such skills. With three grown up children, I've been through the tough times with them, the peer pressure and internal stresses of the teenage years especially are when parents need to be extra vigilant. Our young ones are trying to cope with rapid self-change; physically, mentally and emotionally, with emotions coming on very strongly, as well as learning to socialise, study and work. Being alert to key comments, such as, "I wish I'd never been born", "I think I'll just kill myself", "I hate my family situation" (or whichever family member, Mum, Dad, Step-parent, etc.) As friends we should try to be direct and genuinely interested in each other. It comes under the subject of Mental Illness and is something that we could all do a bit of study on. One of my old school mates was a popular and outgoing kid at school, had lots of friends, seemed tough and capable, yet I found out he committed suicide a few years ago. Man is unique in that he lives on hope. Without hope, we die. I know it seems a simplification but it's true if you think about it. A tip about teenagers - When it seems a though their whole world is crashing down around them and everything is hopeless and nothing is ever going to go right and they're completely stressed out; look for one particular problem or issue, even seemingly minor, address and resolve it and they suddenly find things are not so bad after all. Emotions can be rather extreme in an overeaction to a difficulty so as parents we need to try to overlook these overeactions, remain calm and confident in the relationship and address the issues raised. At times this is a real challenge, but when our children say, "I hate you!" they rarely mean it, they just want the problem resolved. It's a huge subject to go into in this type of forum, but we can touch on it and perhaps give some useful advice through knowledge or experience and we can offer our sympathies to those who have faced the problem first hand.

[Hitcher]

Another thought-provoking thread -- similar to the recent mental health one.

I find the concept of suicide and its consequences unimaginable. I am bemused by its increase to near epidemic levels in some age groups. And I am conflicted by society's desire not to talk about it more openly versus fostering an environment where more may choose it as an option.

Either way, it saddens and concerns me greatly. And makes me feel powerless and frustrated.

[kickingzebra]

Thanks for bringing this topic up Sudeep,

All I can say; I hate the sense of powerlessness that goes with suicidal tendencies. When you don't know what to do, or how serious someone is.
Or when you know damn well they are serious, and it is a metter of keeping them occupied long enough until the black dog goes back to its kennel.

I've had to deal with it more than I would like in the ideal world, and still can't make any sense of it. Such utter loss. It really gets to me.

[yungatart]

hXc had a mate who committed suicide last year,at the age of 15. If he could only see how that continues to impact on his friends and classmates - indeed his whole year group, to this day, maybe he wouldn't have done it. It was a tragic and traumatic experience for those left behind and a lot of them are still struggling to come to terms with it and left wondering why he did it and what they could have done differently to prevent it. Not a nice legacy for 14 and 15 year olds to deal with.
I personally think it is a very cowardly and selfish act - if you are that way inclined, go get some help and sort yourself out - nothing lasts forever and tomorrow may just be your lucky day.

[scumdog]

Less of it would make MY job a little more pleasant...

I wonder if younger ones really realise death is , like, forever and ever??

No 'replay'?

A very thought provoking thread but there are no solutions or 'cure-all' answers.

It claims people from all sections of society and there is no common theme, some 'notes' left with the reason for the suicide make you think 'is that all?' but I guess at that time and in THAT persons life they had an insurmountable problem that was making life to miserable for them - and all they could see was this big black wall on front of them.

[Str8 Jacket]

I personally think it is a very cowardly and selfish act - if you are that way inclined, go get some help and sort yourself out - nothing lasts forever and tomorrow may just be your lucky day.

While I can definately understand where your coming from, I myself have been on "the other side" myself. There were a couple of times that I was told I should not have survived after attempting. After being released form hospital the first time my family were sooo unsupportive it wasnt funny. All they could say was "do you know what you did to us", "how can anyone in the church take us seriously now", blah blah. That was the most darkest time of my life, and I was 11 years old. I cannot explain the overwhelming darkness one feels before attempting suicide, the believe that noone would really care if you were dead. I really believed that I was doing the world a favour, I was so distraught so lonely, in fact even writing this is making me wanna cry and im at work damnit! If you have never been there you cannot understand, its a different world so dark. Its at this time that you feel so alone, you feel like its the only way to make the pain go away.
So yeah I can understand how you see it as selfish, I was so mad at my mates when they died, the pain that people leave behind them when they have gone in unexplainable, but so is the pain of wanting to commit suicide. Its such an evil thing and it makes me so angry and sad and most of all so helpless.

[Hitcher]

Churches have to take some of this on the chin as well, in terms of shaping hostile and condemnatory views in society. Telling people that suicide is a mortal sin and offenders will be denied paradise isn't particularly helpful for the suicidal. It also doesn't do much for the friends and family who survive and ponder the guilt associated with wondering whether they could have done more to help.

[yungatart]

I didn't mean any offence Str8 jacket and you are right - I don't understand why any one would feel compelled to end it all. I just know how hard it was to help , not only my son, but 250-odd other year 10 students cope with their classmate's death. I know how helpless I felt and how hard it was to put aside my own anger towards this young person, (I had lost a grandson thru stillbirth only a couple of weeks before), to be there for these kids when they desperately needed someone. I know how angry and depressed hXc still gets over it and how he still wonders what he could have done if only he had known it was that bad for his mate.
Thats why I say, if you feel that way, find some help, talk to someone. Don't leave people behind confused, grieving and wondering for the rest of their lives, could they have done something..
It is still a tragic waste of huge potential and it saddens me so much

[vifferman]

I wonder if younger ones really realise death is , like, forever and ever??

No 'replay'?

Dunno.
One of my kids (two suicide attempts) is so into computer games, he says he'll just "re-spawn" after he kills himself.

[Str8 Jacket]

I didn't mean any offence Str8 jacket and you are right -

No offence taken Yungatart, if anything I was agreeing with your opinion. One of the big problems with suicide is there is no one else to blame for the death. The person wasnt killed by another person or event, they killed themselves. When someone you know is killed in such a tragic way it becomes very hard for those friends and family left, they cant be angry at the person that killed their friend or relative, they can only be angry at the person who killed themselves. But these people dont want to be angry at their mate/family member they want to grieve thier loss, thats when it becomes confusing. People need to understand why someone close to them died, but with suicide they cant and never will thats what makes it so hard.
You are right to feel the way you do, as I said I felt like that when my mates killed themselves, thats partly the reason I will never attempt to take my life again.
Sadly noone ever knows how much they really were loved until they die. then its too late.