It's a sad day (Virginia University shootings, 16 April)

**Swoop** · 20th April 2007, 09:13

Originally Posted by MD

You, like the other wannabe gun-tooting cowboys on here, are deliberately missing the point.

Too damn late in the US. The genie is out of the bottle and isn't going to get back inside, in the forseeable future.
In the US, you don't know when "something" (bank robbery, gang turf war, psycho with an attitude) will put your life in imminent danger.
UNLESS at X time on X date, EVERYONE in the US places their guns into a furnace and the nation becomes disarmed, then the status quo will remain.
Can you see this happening?

Maybe some of us are just realists.

**davereid** · 20th April 2007, 09:20

Originally Posted by MD

Not arguing that crims in NZ get guns and steal guns

Pretty clearly gun control has little or no effect on the availability of guns to criminals.

Mr. G. Burton (unfortunately recently not deceased) demonstrated his ability to get his hands on a range of firearms including handguns and other military equipment, even while under "strict" supervision.
Yet handguns are very tightly controlled in NZ, tighter control than anything proposed for the USA.

Britain has even stricter controls than us, and yet its gun crime rate is growing. Some cities in the UK (like Manchester) have higher gun crime rates than most parts of the USA.

And even in good old crime free Japan, where the theft of a bicycle gets days of police attention, and guns are completely banned, a politician was just topped with a handgun.

Interestingly, Virginia Tech was a "Gun Free" zone, which apparently only stopped the good guys having guns.

Compare the mass shooting at "Gun Free VT" to Appalaician School of Law, Pearl High School, Edinboro Graduation, and Trolley Square.

At VT the mass murderer decided when the killing would stop. At all the others armed students - teachers or shoppers stopped the murderer before it became a mass murder.

And overnight, here in good old NZ, another person was knifed to death at home. Maybe we need knife registration as well.

**Mr Merde** · 20th April 2007, 09:53

Originally Posted by davereid

.......

And overnight, here in good old NZ, another person was knifed to death at home. Maybe we need knife registration as well.

More so, using the argument of most of the anti gun fraternity, knives were designed to kill and then adapted for other uses.

Oh goodness they are just like guns.

While we are there I think that the game of darts should also be banned as they are an adaptation of weapons of war as are the sports of discuss throwing, javelin and shotput.

Come to think of it all team games seem to derive some sort of confrontational exercise and they should all be banned as they foster an unhealthy attitude.

**jrandom** · 20th April 2007, 10:48

Originally Posted by MD

You, like the other wannabe gun-tooting cowboys on here, are deliberately missing the point. What if you couldn't just walk into the corner shop, slap down your credit card and buy a gun in the first place! Then the above scenario couldn't happen.

You're getting upset, and you're missing the point that I was making. I don't think anybody's arguing that guns should be sold like candy. In fact, I'm not sure if there's anywhere in the USA where you can purchase a firearm without a background check run against a Police database.

It so happened that the Virginia Tech shooter didn't have a criminal record, so he could buy a gun. He had, however, been committed to a mental institution at one point, which would have stopped him getting a firearms licence in NZ.

Go back and read all of my posts in this thread, and you'll understand my position vis-a-vis gun control, criminal violence and pragmatism.

You can't disarm the USA. Maybe you could have 150 years ago, but that cat left the bag a long, long time ago. All you can do now is try to minimise harm.

It's funny, you know. Non-shooters, when talking about firearms, sound very much like cage drivers when talking about motorcycles. If everyone was somehow forced to spend six months becoming intimately acquainted with anything they want to rant about the evils of, the world would become a much more reasonable place.

**riffer** · 20th April 2007, 13:15

Originally Posted by Finn

I noticed on tonights news that up to 200 people died today from a terrorist car bomb in Iraq but no one mentions that on KB cause they're just rags heads and nobody cares if they die. If it happened in Australia you would. Oh wait, that's a bad example.

Then I suggest you re-read the thread. I made a point about this in post 86.

Some people DO care about these things.

And I seem to recall a lot of people got just as upset about Aramoana and Port Arthur.

Do some research before you shoot your mouth off please.

**riffer** · 20th April 2007, 13:16

Originally Posted by Fish

It's funny, you know. Non-shooters, when talking about firearms, sound very much like cage drivers when talking about motorcycles. If everyone was somehow forced to spend six months becoming intimately acquainted with anything they want to rant about the evils of, the world would become a much more reasonable place.

This is quite possibly one of the most sensible things I've ever read on this site.

MD · 20th April 2007, 13:48

Originally Posted by Mr Merde

More so, using the argument of most of the anti gun fraternity, knives were designed to kill and then adapted for other uses.

Oh goodness they are just like guns.

While we are there I think that the game of darts should also be banned as they are an adaptation of weapons of war as are the sports of discuss throwing, javelin and shotput.

Come to think of it all team games seem to derive some sort of confrontational exercise and they should all be banned as they foster an unhealthy attitude.

1. Mr Merde. Who said I'm with the anti gun frat? I have used guns, I have enjoyed using guns. I used to go out bunny hunting with my Dad many moons ago. I was blasting away a few months ago at the gun club. Shit it's boring isn't it.
2.cough, cough, I'm choking here. Turn down the smokescreen machine. Knives and darts are not like guns. They are not made solely to be able to kill creatures. Let me repeat, try and sneak from classroom to classroom killing 32 people over two hours armed with only a knife or a dart . Doubt you will succeed. That's the difference..

Fish you are quite right my emotions soured like a bird, until I was shot down (trying to be funny Ok). Sorry about that rant. I hear what you're saying, the yanks have far too many guns in too many hands now and there's no way to turn the clock back. Or is that turn the Glock back.
Davereid - you say our gun control has had little effect in keeping guns away from crims. Maybe but... This is where I support our gun control. Without it the problem would be 100 times worse. All I'm saying is that with our control, lets say one in 50 serious crims currently has or can get a gun in need, with some degree of difficulty I would imagine. Now bring in Yank rules, sell 8,000,000 handguns across the country and see what changes. I'd say all serious crims would soon have a gun. I don't like that scenario.
I read yesterday that Cho simply walked in, used his credit card and within minutes walked out ready to kill. A nuclear bomb must require a 7 day stand down period I guess. Great place to live... and die.
True story. Mate was living in Detroit some years ago.. Driving passed a bar after two dicks were leaving it after having a fight/argument with each other. Minutes later one of them passed my friend's car (who's wife was beside him) and pulled out a gun, shot dead the car driver in the lane near to my mate. Turned out he targetted the wrong driver aswell. Little comfort to the dead man and his family. He couldn't have done that with a knife or dart.