A thought on NZ road racing PT1

[Bren_chch]

Guido , what would you like Brendon to do ? Bring you a hammer and nails so you can bang up some more fences ? You say built up by volunteers ? are you joking ? You say out of MNZ control. This situation has been the same for 20 years and we (the motorcycling fraternity) have accepted it. How many emails have been sent to circuit owners from MNZ and Clubs asking about improving the standard of toilets and catering for "their event".
Hey get this , after speaking to Wendy (a very hard working dedicated volunteer) from Motorcycling Canterbury, I went and spoke to the Canterbury Car Club Secretary 3 months ago The CCC are responsible for Track Hire at Ruapuna , the conversation went like this " Hey Nola , the Food here is Shit" "she said " I agree , I will talk to the Food people about improving things" The food people said basically , well that's how it is, Nola says "hey well if you can't do better then get lost ". The CCC are renegotiating all Food contracts and have appointed a proffesional catering company to co-ordinate things.You know what the problem is Guido , WE ACCEPT JUNK SO THATS WHAT WE GET ! We are even so dumbed down we think we can't complain , but just have to suffer in the corner. That's what this is about, setting the standard we want and not letting the lunatics run the asylum, This is our sport not the circuit owners.

Mick

good action mickeyboy!

[CM2005]

if only we still had the marlboro series, and world class tracks on which to host MotoGP and SBK. i ride a bucket, i'm happy.

[Bren_chch]

Guido... come in! Over.

[steveyb]

Raising the profile of the sport in NZ.
The comment has been made that the NZ championship bears more resemblence to a glorified club meeting than to a national sporting championship. In this regard I am in general agreement, but have to say, that things do seem to be on a bit of an upswing over the past few years. One of the major reasons for this has been the formation and high level performance, of the new multi-bike teams such as RRR and Bernard racing teams.

Internationally, at the track level, this is the professional approach that really turns on the spectators, knowledgable or otherwise. Teams do not need to be professional, but setting out to at least appear that way is a really good start. I have tried to state this in the past, and will say it again, presentation is the first hurdle!! Performance comes second. The punter watching on the telly or at the circuits will always be more impressed by the team or rider that looks the part and may not win, than someone who looks like a dogs breakfast , winner or otherwise.

The well presented team/rider will be the one who attracts sponsorship ahead of the team that is not. So, if the ideal goal is that all the participants act in a quality, professional manner, then the next goal is that the organisers do the same.

So, my opinion is that the only way that the NZ national championship will be able to raise its game to the level that many (but it must be recognised, NOT ALL) people want it to be, is that the series MUST be organised, funded, marketed and run by one or more professional promoters. The days of each meeting being organised, underwritten and run by volunteer clubs needs to be drawn to a close. The clubs must focus on growing the grassroots level with club championships and allow the big show to move to the next level.

It must also be recognised that there are many people in this sport who simply refuse to aknowledge that clubs running the national championships is one of the major problems. As much work and stress as it is, they seem to thrive on doing it. Now, this is not to denegrate their MASSIVE contributions, but surely, if you didn't need to do such a large job, why would you want to hang onto it so tightly? Why not turn you energies to growing your club championships without the worry of doing the nationals also?

The next hurdle is of course money. The kiwi knocking machine is hugely efficient at knocking down someone who wants to do a good job, but also wants or needs to make some money doing it. Witness Peter Fentons efforts at the JB Memorial. Issues that I could see was that he needed to rely on the club to run the meeting, that it was not likely to make a profit on only one meeting, that the economies of scale suggested that after the sunk costs, more meetings in succession, with different themes perhaps, needed to be run. Peter was definitely on the right track and the show was great, but for several reasons he chose not to continue. A shame, but also an opportunity.

My feelings are that in order for the thing to grow, everyone in it needs to want to get something out of it. By that I mean money, in some form or other. The promoter wants a profit, to make a living doing it, the sponsors want promotion and a good time, the spectators want a great show and the riders want prizes and prize money, real prize money that is.

When we all realise that we need to step it up to this level, then we will get real about what it is we need to do to.

A close mate of mine is in TV (not at a high level unfortunately), but two high level NZ TV people are racers in this sport of ours. My mate was part of the team that has managed after severaly years of effort to get NZ Speedway on TV on a regular basis. The methods used to do this were simple, and by and large FREE!!!!!! Having meetings fully covered on a regular basis is not free, but if the profile is built over time using these methods, the sponsors will be there to partner with the sports promoters. We are seeing this to some degree with SsangYang, but the play the coverage gets on the major networks is pretty shabby after the large effort and cost that has gone into making it.

I'm rambling a bit now, but my point is that professionalism, if not in reality, then in spirit, is the only way forward, if, that is, if, we really want to see our sport rise out of the club mentality. There are good arguments for and against this, so we shall see I guess, which way we really want to go.

Enjoy ;-)

Steve

[Brian d marge]

I would agree with that except, I would apply that to club racing . build the grassroots into a tv worthy show .. There are a fair few club riders and only a handfull of top teams

I would like to see packed grids of well presented bikes , rather than the same 3 people win

Myself , just come back from another meeting with everyone having a great time ..dads playing with kids .. everyones kids .... mine was off playing with gosh knows who..

we were well fed and watered again,, and won a few pot plants in a bingo game ( hey there were free!!! but neither the wife or I have any joy in growing plants !!)

overall another great dayout ( we were watching the nsr80 and under 10 races at the local track)

The entry fee is about 10 000 yen ( about 125 dollars ) for the racing ,,but spectators are free ,,


Stephen

[oyster]

Right on it Brian. Start at the club level and build it into an appealing event, a place where lots of people want to be. And with your example, with plenty of YOUTH. We're working on that here, at some Motorcycling Canterbury meetings I'm sure the average age at Riders Breif is 16 years old, and as young as 11.
Stevey, it's no use promoting events without riders. How many bikes on the grid at nationals? What was the "depth"? IE if you put in a 110% cut off, how big would the grids be then? That's what people go to the championship for, to see the best, not the "grid fillers".
Even the club scene is weak, why else would we have support classes of Karts and Classics. What future here? Will this pull the crowds? Of course not.

Now my little plug... The only full grid at the Nationals was Streetstock at Ruapuna with 34 riders. And unlike Karts and Classics, these riders have a future.... They are the ones who will solve the the first mentioned problem.
Then, and only then, can we get excited about promoting our sport. Please focus your energy here, developing the new, young riders.

[steveyb]

Right on it Brian. Start at the club level and build it into an appealing event, a place where lots of people want to be. And with your example, with plenty of YOUTH. We're working on that here, at some Motorcycling Canterbury meetings I'm sure the average age at Riders Breif is 16 years old, and as young as 11.
Stevey, it's no use promoting events without riders. How many bikes on the grid at nationals? What was the "depth"? IE if you put in a 110% cut off, how big would the grids be then? That's what people go to the championship for, to see the best, not the "grid fillers".
Even the club scene is weak, why else would we have support classes of Karts and Classics. What future here? Will this pull the crowds? Of course not.

Now my little plug... The only full grid at the Nationals was Streetstock at Ruapuna with 34 riders. And unlike Karts and Classics, these riders have a future.... They are the ones who will solve the the first mentioned problem.
Then, and only then, can we get excited about promoting our sport. Please focus your energy here, developing the new, young riders.

Hi again. A rainy afternoon, so time to waste here!!
I agree with the sentiment espoused by Oyster (Pete??) and Stephen. In all sports, without growth and support at the grass roots, then there is no top level. The junior programme at MC Canterbury is without peer in NZ. AMCC have a programme and VMCC are attempting to build one also, but are not as advanced.

But I reiterate my own opinion in order to be clear, I believe that it is the place of the clubs to build the grassroots and to, more or less (in general terms) to forget about the top level events. Bear in mind, that if we concentrate our efforts only at the grass roots, then the big show may actually die completely. This would be the logical conclusion of the philospophy described above.

My opinion is that the so-called lack of depth is not that there is a lack of depth (but we do need to recognise that ours is a small calibre sport with very few riders actually in it. Remember, we have only about 1000 or so, licenced road riders in NZ as opposed to about 3500 or more off road riders) but that entrance into the big show is not attractive enough for enough riders.

While it is GREAT that there were all those riders in the junior event at Ruapuna, can you say that all of those riders are or will be good enough to compete at the sharp end of a high quality national event (not as it stands now, but in the future, in a high level event that we might strive for)? Of course if every club was able to drum up those numbers then of course we would end up with more high level competitors.

But, if the clubs have been concentrating on building the grassroots and running the national champs as they do now, then these new riders will turn up to the glorified club meetings as they do now, then there is a real risk that they will decide, along with many people now, that it is simply not worth the cost and effort.

So, I belive that part of the solution lies in the clubs letting go of the national championship and allowing a professional promoter to take it over. There are many pro's to this approach, and some cons of course, but a major part of that is just the creation of a big show. Clubs are notoriously poor at doing this. Big ticket sponsors do not want to deal with clubs, they prefer a professional single contact. The current situation where we have sponsors dealing with the governing body is also unacceptable. It is not the job of the governing body to run the events, their job is to create the legislative and legal framework within which others run events.

So this is my point, without the grass roots, then there are no new "best" riders, but without a big show for them to show off at, then there will be no competitors. Ask around how many riders feel that the nationals at the moment is a trial rather than a joy. Ask also the club administrators, who of them would let let go of the nationals if they had the opportunity to do so.

As an aside, I also believe that running the national championship over a longer period, ie several months would be advantageous.

Enjoy

Steve

[steveyb]

I also submit this in support of my views about the merits of younger riders staying on 125GP bikes as long as possible and taking them around the world:

Blake is looking like the next cab off the rank in Aussie GP racing:



Blake Leigh-Smith takes seventh in European IDM 125cc season opener

17 year old Australian rider Blake Leigh-Smith has finished a creditable 7th in the first round of the Internationale Deutsche Motorradmeistersdhaft (IDM) 125cc held at Euro Speedway in Lausitz in front of 12,500 motorcycle racing fans, over the weekend of 28th and 29th of April.

The 125 GP class saw 37 competitors from 7 countries locked in a hard fought battle for points.

In keeping with his Australian heritage, Blake hit Lausitz�s notorious �Bayliss Bump� and crashed heavily, early in the second practice session on the Friday morning. Major mechanical damage saw him miss almost all practice on Friday.

Blake returned on the Saturday, with the repaired bike still needing some fine tuning, but managed to qualify 12th in the very competitive field.

In Sunday�s race, Blake got a great start making up several positions in the first lap and his fastest lap of 1.49.2 was close to the fastest lap of the race (1.48.0).

As in all 125cc GP racing the competition was incredibly close, and on the last lap while holding 5th place, battling in a tight group of 3, a clash with another rider saw Blake cross the finish line in 7th.

Blake was only 2 1/1000ths of a second behind 6th, and 3/10ths of a second to 5th place, reminiscent of world championship 125cc racing, very close and hard fought final corners.

In the final points standing Blake stands a creditable 6th in the prestigious German Championship.

Round 2 of the Internationale Deutsche Motorradmeistersdhaft (IDM) 125cc will be fought at the Motorsport Arena Oschersleben on May 20.

[Cleve]

Thought the 2 cycles days were numbered with chook chasers all going 4 cycle and Honda/Japanese pulling out of 2 cycle GP official factory teams...

wrong...

HOWEVER I note that despite the irony that when 2 cycles were the ultimate (500GP) lots came through the 4 cycle route but now that 4 cycles are the ultimate (MotoGP) 2 cycles (125/250) is the way to come up, that Dorna have said that the 125/250 2 cycle class is guaranteed until at LEAST 2012. So long live the ring dings!

Hmmmm mind you nothing wrong with a career in Supersport/Superbike if that is what you want...

[Brian d marge]

just relaxing watching Fim superstock, having now had a chance to look at the rules ( hope they were the right ones !)
So we agree that the club racers need to set a proffesional standard and I also have said before about learning on a 2 smoke , about bike set up.... tech etc
So,, My idea would be ..

Club days

Streetstock ( 150 cc thingys )

125 gp

250 gp ( your nsr250s set up like a race bike and pukka gp machines, while the early nsr 250 mc18 look dated they were just as quick !!... new fairings ,,you be fine !)

f3 as per today ..( split as per rules ..650 twins /400 4s 250 2 stroke)

600 superstock ( as international rules , standard ( with mapping and exhaust changes , datalogging )

1000 superstock ( as per 600 superstock)



National Races

125
250 2 strokes
600 superstocks
or 1000 superstocks ( acting as a support class to ..........

Superbike

based on a street bike with no limit ,,as per international rules

If there is enough time then insert either classic bike or motards ( or if grids for a class is low insert motards ,,, think of the viewers


Listening to James Whitam talking about the superstock class , he is saying that if you are running a WSB team then you would be looking at the superstocks for your next rider ( also the youngest was 17 and the oldest was 23 ) Sooooo

you would have gone through the ranks by the time you were/are 17 or a little over a season on each bike assuming u started 125 at 12/13 ish


Once again I think things ARE happening ( paeroa) it is getting there ,,

Stephen

cos its tea time and the racing has finished !

[slowpoke]

Some interesting comments being made here but there seems to be two streams of thought:
1/ Creating a an environment to encourage/improve young riders
2/ Creating an attractive package to lure sponsors and the media

I think it's important to differentiate the two because having one does not necessarily guarantee the other. You could have a well run meeting, with grids full of numpty's like me but if they are on good looking, nice sounding bikes and the racing is close then it would be a good product for TV. Conversely if the meeting was poorly organised, on shitty looking/sounding bikes even with the odd Rossi thrown in it wouldn't make for very good viewing.

From the meetings I've seen in Oz, at both club and national level the whole aura is one of being slightly more professional. It has little to do with money or talent but on a desire to be taken seriously. The facilities at Barbagallo (Wanneroo, Western Australia) aren't that far removed from Manfeild apart from the track being resurfaced recently but even the club scene is slick, runs close to time, high level of scrutineering, short races stop the spectators getting bored, fewer classes means less "races within a race" confusion, "racecraft" trackdays instruct riders in racing etiquette and bike preparation (and the club makes a bit of coin).

Importantly, the "not so serious" competitors on buckets and post classics race at the more enthusiast rather than competitive based historic motorcycle club meets.

This allows the road racing club to put on a great show of well prepared, good looking/sounding bikes condensed into more consistent classes. It also allows two ten minute practice/qualifying sessions per class, a great improvement over the lousy single eight minute session run at VMCC meets. Who even feels remotely up to speed let alone has time to test/ adjust their bike during a maximum of eight laps?
Not enough time for anything else you say? GET RID OF THE MOTARD CLASS, IT'S A ROAD RACE MEETING! Manfeild short track must be as boring as fuck to race anyway, 'cos it's bloody boring to watch. If you wanna race your motard jump in Clubmans or F3 something but don't run an offroad class at a road race meeting.

The WA scene is quite a valid comparison to NZ as they have similar problems of dealing with the Sporting Car Club which owns Barbagallo (as per Manfeild), it is further from the Eastern States than NZ is, WA is often overlooked for national rounds (limited exposure to top class competition), and aspiring riders have the same decision forced upon them of having to "go East" and race on unfamiliar tracks if they are to pursue their dreams.

There are a million ways of improving the local scene, there just needs to be a commitment by people with the power to effect changes. We don't have to reinvent the wheel, there are lots of successful motorcycle clubs/countries we can learn from, with some allowances made for the local motorcycle "climate".

[Brian d marge]

So we have different types of meetings
Trackdays , as per it is now

Club meetings , loose family days no pressure , just fanging round track in a semi serious manner

National meetings

as per I said before with a clear career learning path the whole profesional attiude going on

So if I was to buy a rs 125 .. i would get track days . club meeting and national meetings

same with a cbr600 Thats a lot of racing!!

but we still havent addressed the proffesional attitude , I think thats a personal thing , and also the whats in it for me question

Here I think every person has make clear their wish list ... a chance to win say tyres coin , gasoline ...

Sponsors an increased traffic flow through the business and if they package works and the TV comes then thats a bonus for all ( great for sponsors!!)

I think say Paeroa , has it businesses the crowd ( great for the businesses , ) the racing looks the part all in all its a good package ( in the interest of research you understand I watched this years paeroa back to back with wsb/wsuperstock and hand on heart I think Paeroa is better. I mean I recommend it to all and I do!!!

Me ( and I know a few others ) would like to make a living from that area ( cant call it an industry )
I think it can happen .

To make it happen first i think you just do it , So if you are racing have a look at your pit area , does it look the part ? are your people helping you looking good or does it look slack ( a top rider being interviewed on Tv in his singlet ........... I know it was a hot day but ,,,,
Compare that with the supersport race and the riders were grabbing the camera and pointing it towards the sponsors logo !!

right enough !! i ve reeeeally got to do some work!!!!!!!!!

Stephen