Navy's frigates break down at sea.

**Finn** · 27th April 2007, 13:18

Originally Posted by Ixion

That was one call that Dear Leader got right. All our defence money (such as it is) should go into the Navy, and militia type training along the lines of Switzland.

I agree, so why aren't they?

**SARGE** · 27th April 2007, 13:36

Originally Posted by Ixion

That was one call that Dear Leader got right. All our defence money (such as it is) should go into the Navy, and militia type training along the lines of Switzland.

agree .. Coastal Defense should be at the forefront. Turn the old gun batteries in Devonport etc into Phalanx/ Harpoon / Exocet/ Yakhont anti ship missile batteries for an " OTH", Fire and Forget defense. Use the Coast Guard in smaller boats for Fisheries Protection , S&R and Smuggling Interdiction. one Fast Response Cutter and a 7 123 foot patrol boats would cost as much as one Frigate ...toss a few Exocet systems on the RNZ fleet ad you're sorted

as far as a NZ militia..where do i sign?

**RC1** · 27th April 2007, 13:50

Navy ?? do we still have one ?? i thought they just sent out the locals in there waka

**jrandom** · 27th April 2007, 15:29

Originally Posted by Ixion

There is no nation that we would be at all likely to have to worry about, except the USA, that would have the capability to mount an aerial invasion. It's by no means as easy as people imagine.

I think you're missing the true value of an offensive air capability in terms of homeland defence.

Granted, any potential invader's airpower can be used to drop bombs or land paratroops. Bombs never won a war on their own, and substantial airborne invasions are very unlikely from any of NZ's potential enemies, so shooting down enemy planes in and of itself is really the least of anyone's concerns in that respect.

However, the success or failure of any seaborne invasion hinges on air supremacy.

The Battle of Britain was fought as a prelude to Operation Sea Lion (Hitler's plan for seaborne invasion of the south coast of England). German air supremacy over the Channel would have made the British Navy's job in resisting such an invasion very, very difficult. Fortunately, British victory in the tussle for air supremacy put the nail in that particular German coffin.

Also, the major battles of the WW2 Pacific theatre, and the subsequent shift to aircraft carriers as the new capital ships of any large nation's fleet, made it clear that airpower, not ships' guns, was key to blue-water supremacy.

The ability to control the airspace around and beyond our shores and to strike offensively at blue-water targets from the air is a pre-requisite to any real defence against invasion from the sea. In this 21st century, any Navy that cannot operate under an airpower umbrella is doomed.

Viewed in that light, our Navy really is more of a Coast Guard. Our lack of airpower gives us very limited capability to respond to offensive actions by other nation-states.

**MikeyG** · 27th April 2007, 16:05

Originally Posted by Finn

Sweden only has 8 million people

Sweden also has compulsary military service. Having trained people to call up when needed might be a help.

I'm all for it here. Gets you in shape so would help with the obesity problem, teaches discipline, etc. and just wanting to drive a tank might have something to do with it.

**Swoop** · 27th April 2007, 16:06

Originally Posted by Fish

Viewed in that light, our Navy really is more of a Coast Guard.

NZ Marines.
Forget the three branches stuff and have a combined force all wearing the same uniform.
Chances of that happening?

**SARGE** · 27th April 2007, 16:19

Originally Posted by Swoop

NZ Marines.
Forget the three branches stuff and have a combined force all wearing the same uniform.
Chances of that happening?

NZ Marines ???...

boarding party more likely

http://www.navy.mil.nz/join-us/sits-...ations/scs.htm

again ... a role that the NZ Coast Guard should be doing .. more wasted resources

**Finn** · 27th April 2007, 16:23

Originally Posted by MikeyG

Sweden also has compulsary military service. Having trained people to call up when needed might be a help.

I'm all for it here. Gets you in shape so would help with the obesity problem, teaches discipline, etc. and just wanting to drive a tank might have something to do with it.

Sweden stopped compulsory military service years ago. The claws of socialism meant that anybody who had goldfish that suffered from separation anxiety would be exempt. Killed it overnight.

**Swoop** · 27th April 2007, 16:26

Originally Posted by SARGE

NZ Marines ???...

boarding party more likely

http://www.navy.mil.nz/join-us/sits-...ations/scs.htm

again ... a role that the NZ Coast Guard should be doing .. more wasted resources

Was thinking more along the lines of disbanding the three unarmed services and replacing them with a combined force.

**yod** · 27th April 2007, 16:32

Originally Posted by Fish

....made it clear that airpower, not ships' guns, was key to blue-water supremacy.

The ability to control the airspace around and beyond our shores and to strike offensively at blue-water targets from the air is a pre-requisite to any real defence against invasion from the sea.....

ah...but y'see that's where you're wrong

the water around NZ is mostly green...that's why we don't need an airforce....

very clever us kiwis...having green water an' that.....

**yod** · 27th April 2007, 16:34

Originally Posted by MikeyG

Sweden also has compulsary military service. Having trained people to call up when needed might be a help.

I'm all for it here. Gets you in shape so would help with the obesity problem, teaches discipline, etc. and just wanting to drive a tank might have something to do with it.

you mean i get to blow shit up???

where do i sign....

**MikeyG** · 27th April 2007, 16:35

Originally Posted by Finn

Sweden stopped compulsory military service years ago. The claws of socialism meant that anybody who had goldfish that suffered from separation anxiety would be exempt. Killed it overnight.

I still think we need it here though. Would sort out some of the little shits I see round