A thought on NZ road racing PT1

[Bren_chch]

I posted this on the NZSB forum for someone who at the time didnt have an account, it got me thinking so i added my own thoughts to the thread on nzsbf thats been created, so have a read of the guys original post below post your thoughts.

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Where are our boys!

The current televised international road racing, world superbike, supersport and Moto GP is conspicuously void of any kiwi riders, excluding Andrew Stroud’s wild card ride on his K4 Suzuki at the 2005 Phillip Island round of the World Superbike Championship, the appearance of a Kiwi rider scraping it out with the worlds best may be a thing of the past.

We must recognise Bruce Ansteys brilliant Isle of Man performance and thanks to Sky for showing the footage, and yes, both Ben Townley, Josh Coppins and the King brothers have and continue to, fly the kiwi flag with style on the dirt front, but I want to talk about the tar babies.

Are our road racers just not fast enough? Do the tight tracks full of second gear corners not enhance the skills needed? Are we just a bunch of hicks who should stick to rugby and rowing, are the days of a New Zealander winning an international motorcycle road race all over?

In the past we lived and breathed watching Slighty taking on the World. Trying to beat a 1000cc twin on 750 four, it didn’t matter what your brand loyalty was, Aaron Slight was our boy and we would cheer for him if he was riding Honda CB110 (he may as well have been) How would he have gone under today’s rules on a 1000cc RC45? anyway that’s another story.

What’s going on? Where are the new Slightys? Where are the up and coming names? Let me qualify this, I’m not saying we don’t have good road racers, like guitar players, there a good ones born everyday, the problem is the stepping stones to the big time are very hard for some and by management, opportunity and a little bit of luck easier for others.

Here is the anomaly in one word “Australia”

Troy Bayliss , Casey Stoner , Anthony West Kevin Curtain ,
Chris Vermulan, Karl Muggeridge , Troy Corser Andrew Pitt , Garry McCoy , Steve Martin , Matt Miladin , Josh Brookes.

There are more, but you can see the issue here, 12 Aussies on the top stage and how many Kiwis ? Zero ! the question is why?

Are the Aussies just better, it appears so, they are winning races and World championships.

Corser,2005 World Superbike Champion Bayliss 2006 World Superbike Champion.

Advance Australia Fair is the number 1 rostrum soundtrack !
Yes, there are other good guys, but we can’t ignore the facts, Aussie riders are doing it. To say Kiwi riders aren’t doing it is an overstatement because to do it you must be there and our guys literally aren’t in the race.

The question is what are they doing that we aren’t? I believe the Aussie Superbike championship is the key but not the only one; it’s about management and vision.

The Aussie series or YMF Superbike Champs as it is currently branded is filled with great riders looking to get onto the world stage, and it works.
The series has a major sponsor, two bike teams with distributor backing, plus some real good private entries. Race 2 of the Winton round held during August was won by Robert Bugden a privateer from Queensland on an R1, we will hear more from this young man I’m sure. Tony Reese is the only kiwi who competes consistently in this series on his Bike Biz sponsored R1.

Get this, people actually turn up to watch, you can get good food at the track, the punters are actually considered in the running of the event.
It’s quite a big deal, the races are covered by Channel 10,racing is competitive, not only is it a good day out in the sun but it’s also great TV, the sponsors are rewarded and public are impressed, it breeds a momentum, young guys like Vermulean who were winning dirt bike races in the junior circles have a pathway to the big time, the Australian scene is a healthy environment and the amount of quality riders coming from Australia is the proof that it works.

The 3 P’s, Price, Product, and Presentation still apply and the Aussies hit the nail on the head, we haven’t even got the tool belt on and if we did we would end up hitting our thumb rather than the nail.

All those guys listed above cut their teeth in the ARRC, Barry Sheene spotted Vermeulan racing in Aussie and got him a ride in England and now he is Ten Kate’s number one man and looking like a potential Moto GP young gun.

How many of our young talented road races have ended up hanging up their leathers because the limited scene in New Zealand has choked their potential?

Where did Aaron Slight kick start his international career? You guessed it, Australia, riding the Bob Brown Ducati, and then moving to Team Kawasaki Australia, which then became the World Superbike Team, Richard Scott rode in Aussie, headed to England and ended with a seat at Lucky Strike Yamaha.

The New Zealand Road Race Championship, lets be honest is hardly attractive to those from outside, sponsors and the public are not beating the door down to grab some association. The promotion of the championship at local level is a non-event, the attendance at these meetings is spartan at best, if you’re lucky you may find the results in the Monday paper but not always.

We can spend time making excuses for ourselves about how Aussie is bigger and with more people they will breed more champions, slightly true, but we don’t see a great deal more Americans in Moto GP and WSBK and there are lot more of them. The success of Townley and Coppins is an example of what a small country can do when they get their ducks in a row, on the MX front we are equal to, if not outshining the Australians.


Red (Peter Fenton) organised the Britten Memorial Race 3 years ago.
Red will admit that he learnt a few tricks, but it was a glimpse of what could be done with a bit of vision and management.

Ok it wasn’t Daytona, but the event had atmosphere, good food, trade displays etc and I saw people watching motorcycle racing I had never seen before.
Make an outing to a NZRRC meeting and you will see the riders, friends of the riders, family of the riders and few die hard enthusiasts who love racing.

Red made it easy for non-bike people to enjoy the bikes. The first thing he did was let the public know it was on and guess what, people came along “amazing isn’t it”.

A couple of months before The Britten Memorial Race, the NZRRC was run at Ruapuna, it was interesting making the comparison between the two. The same riders on the same bikes going around the same track, but the presentation was light years apart, “the sausage and the sizzle” The objectors out there will be quick to point out the Red tipped in a not insignificant sum of his own cash to make the event happen and Clubs wouldn’t have the resources to do this. My response to that would be if the Clubs and governing bodies had not let the sport spiral down into such a deep hole, Red wouldn’t have had to spend his own money in an attempt to drag it out.


Hayden Fitzgerald, Jay Lawrence, Craig Shiriffs all have fathers that have raced or been involved in the sport, this will always happen and long may it continue, but without new blood coming in from outside the road racing gene pool will continue to become very shallow.


Wanganui used be live on TV, we had hard charging Aussies and Guys from the UK racing around the cemetery, mixing it with the local guys, Live to the NZ public, what happened, the Goose was starting lay golden eggs and we forgot to feed it.

A few years ago at a Road Race meeting at Manfield during the late 80’s the TV Director spoke at the riders briefing, remember during this time the racing was televised live. The late and great Robert Holden folded the front end of his GSX1135 at 200kph going into the Manfield sweeper, he slid leathers smoking, up the track, his bike ended up cart wheeling 12 feet in the air and through the plywood “Holden” advertising sign, Robert stood up and walked back to the pits to the cheering of the crowd, the Suzuki was a smoking wreck, it was great TV.
The item was one of the leading stories on the 6.00 o’clock news. Housewives, dads, rugby heads, school kids, car racing people, you name them, they were talking about it for weeks, thanks to television, this was Road Racing, it was great!!

The TV man spoke about rider and machine presentation and said that the only reason the bikes were on TV were because his Producer was passionate about motorcycling, he was diplomatic and professional in his approach “hey guys you need to lift your game if you want this to work, most of the solos are ok but you sidecar guys need to look sharper” the response to this advice has stuck with me as a reminder of how a genetic deficiency in some people can leave them mentally as well as physically handicapped.
“F.*** Off you W******* ! “THE SIDECAR RACE WAS THE BEST RACE YESTERDAY”
“ARE YOU GOING TO PAY FOR A NEW PAINT JOB AND LEATHERS”
and other moronic statements from individuals that made the guests on the Jerry Springer show look like university graduates.

That year was last year TV1 covered the racing and of course no one could work out why, it seemed racing never recovered, the crowds, the audience, dealer involvement and the racing personalities all seemed to be worse off, we can only blame ourselves, we thought someone else would look after the sport and they didn’t.

Good hardworking volunteers have through years laboured at the grass roots of road racing, their efforts are recognised and appreciated by all who compete.

continued.....

[Bren_chch]

This correspondence not a criticism of their efforts, but, we seem to within MNZ and the club scene lack the skills that will in the long run make our sport better for everyone. People do their best but the problem is that to get the sport to the next level we need expertise in the areas that need fixing. The profile of road racing in New Zealand would be struggling to overtake Men’s Netball.

The recent televised racing on Sky from Pukekohe was fantastic , 6 wide into the hairpin, close , exciting awesome tv, who watched it ? you and I,not Joe Public, the Grandstand was empty. My point is the product is great but our profile is in a nutshell, crap. The current sponsors such as Ssang Yong should be given golden accolades for taking a punt on our sport.

The organising club committee should be discussing how they are going fit all the people into the grandstands due to the great marketing job they and MNZ have done promoting what should be a fantastic event Instead they debate whether or not the riders will have to buy or should be given free sausages at the after race barbeque, this is a true situation.

Unfortunately because most Clubs consist of volunteers who normally lack the grunt to do anything more than the basics, the NZ championship meetings will continue to be Club day, maybe with a few more and in most cases faster entrants but basically the same format and same audience.

What I always wondered about was why weren’t the then controlling body setting a standard that riders and machines had to meet for televised meetings.
Some will say it only matters who’s the fastest, the cosmetics are irrelevant. That is club racing mentality, when the audience are people in the know they have the ability to spit the pips out, a broken screen or brush painted fairing, brown leathers with the bum hanging down to the knees can be overlooked by good lap time, when the viewers are not so well informed the presentation needs to be aimed towards them.

A gentleman who I worked for a while ago often got frustrated when coming into his auto dealership during the weekend to find the car salesman had decided to slot their personal cd’s into the showroom sound system, when he questioned the perpetrators about this new music the standard response was “we didn’t like that stuff so we changed it” The Dealer Principal would wait until all clients were out of listening range and would then in no uncertain terms remind the salesman that it’s actually not about your personal preference but about our customers. We all may have opinions on things but what Road Racing in NZ has failed to do is cater to it’s customers.

It doesn’t really matter now because road racing like most business’s that ignore their clients, now don’t have any or very few on the best of days.

The two wheeled fraternity from track promoters to governing bodies are responsible, what were Raymond Roches memories of the Manfield round of the 1990 World Superbike Champs, ”tight track and the most disgusting toilet he had ever seen” We really made an impression on the worlds top teams!!
Ok so they built a few more pit garages that should have been there already. Did anything else happen for what was the biggest motorcycle event in New Zealand’s history, did anyone think about the customer? The international visitor? Food, toilets? Hell no!! , It’s not a lack of money but lack of vision that has stifled our sport. Think about it, we had World Superbikes racing in New Zealand, Mertans, Slight, Phillis, Roche, Polen, Rhymer, Tardozzi, and Merkel the stars of the day.
Some will say that it was early days for the series and as it grew New Zealand was always destined to loose the round, considering we couldn’t do a decent job while SBK was in it’s infancy, imagine if they turned up now, don’t worry they won’t, we made sure of that.
So what’s the big deal with the bog ” jumped up little frog what’s his issue, what’s a few skid marks between mates “?
We knew they were coming, International teams with professional riders and we made the same old mistake, we did nothing because we didn’t think there was anything wrong! We lived in an unprofessional rough enough is good enough instant coffee world and thought everyone else did to.

No insight, no consideration, yes the racing was good, but again it’s the cake with no icing, and the big question is obvious, Where are they now, Not here!

We had our chance but as usual we didn’t play the right music and the party moved house. The sad thing is that it’s not that’s hard, but for some reason road racing continues to be at best a glorified club scene. Everyone from the riders, sponsors and fans deserve better. What’s more disappointing is that most people seem to accept the status quo is ok and think this is as good as it gets.

Talk to people that have been around a while and you will here the same stories of disillusionment and disappointment with the management of our sport. Good people with heaps to offer have been burnt off with what they perceive as a lack of direction and progress with what could be a frontline sport in New Zealand.

I know of one volunteer who worked his butt off organising a NZRRC meeting, he took time off work to get things sorted.
When it was suggested that as a matter of goodwill the Club should reimburse him for his loss of earnings, the polar fleece brigade quickly put a stop to that.

The organiser wasn’t asking to be reimbursed, just as sponsors don’t ask for professionalism and riders don’t ask that they be addressed at a riders briefing with respect and the courtesy they deserve as dedicated competitors, it’s expected, not fulfilling those expectations is what has let us down.

We in Road Racing NZ fail to read the lay of the land and consequently the lack of growth, profile and audience are all issues that stem from a lack of vision and anticipation of the cause and effect of our actions or lack of them. We continue to deal with the effect rather than the cause.

People have choices in this day an age and for most of them, our sport doesn’t appear on the entertainment radar, not because it doesn’t offer excitement, speed, colour, and a reasonable amount of eye candy, but the wow factor is not there, the quality of the event determines the quality of the punter, as long as road racing in New Zealand continues to do the same old thing we will continue to get the same old outcome.

With the new track at Taupo and the Hampton Downs project underway, talk has filtered through of Moto-GP coming to New Zealand, yeh sure and Nasa are moving their launch pad from Cape Canaverill to Hokitika.
I hear through the grapevine that there will be some TV coverage of the NZRRC this year, great bring it on but it’s not the fix.
Until someone understands that racing around tarmac is part of a very big picture and realise people want an experience not just a seat on damp grass and a hot dog on a stick, we will continue to watch Sky or Prime and fly to Phillip Island and spend our money in Australia.

Kiwi riders will continue to be absent from the International scene, my advice to any NZ Road Racer wanting a chance of making it, move to Australia or America and start doing it, because if I’m going to stay up late to watch racing on TV, I want to be cheering for Kiwi and as long as you stay here it ain’t going to happen with the current management and culture within motorcycle road racing in NZ.

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The original thread is here:

http://www.nzsbf.co.nz/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1155

Cheers, looking forward to the feedback!

[Brian d marge]

I would agree with that .

From another thread I was curious to see about WSB . BSB and super stocks ,, So in the interest of research ( as you do ) I downloaded a few races , from each , along with the tech regulations ..

at Donnington there were 40 000 people in the stands for a superstock race ,, That ain't bad anyway off the point

Paeroa .. thats all I have to say ,, compared even to the wsb , it was leagues in front ( though the superstock race was close ) it was close . lots of people in the crowd , well organized ,, on the money in every way !!!

I race in the club scene here in Japan , last weekend I was at a Vmx meeting, the racing was full on time and well organized and at 2.30 racing stopped for a free BBQ. apid for by the entry fee ..Nice BBQ
then the pit girls all dressed up in 70 style gove out the prizes .. all about image worked well had a great laugh

the boy was happy as there were free jelly and canned drinks ... wife fell asleep in the sun Mongo here was happy cos there were bikes going round and round

If there was a criticism ..there wasn't much for the wife to do ..( she has NO interest in motor sport ) but she treated it like a picnic ,,,

At motegi there are shops and restraunts , so she lurks there ,,,, which brings me back to Paeroa ,,If you are not interested in Racing there is still other things to do ...( well there was last time I was there !

As you said Bren , the end user must be in mind and if u want to maximize the end user it must tickle their fancy ,,, ( ask my wife about motogp and she will talk about okada and Rossi ..why ..Okada is Japanese (not in motogp ??) and Rossi is cute ....Now that has a lot to do with bikes

A guy who owned a baseball team turned the team around by realizing its not about baseball but FAMILY entertainment ( and the playstation is winning ) Good quality low cost FAMILY entertainment ....thats the key ( ImHo and not just a bouncy castle in the corner for the kids ! )

Ruapuna on a cold windy day ... with a hotdog stand in the carpark ... doesn't cut any mustard this end !!

Stephen

A start ,,,, National races ...FREE advertising for local businesses around the track with naming rights costing coin !,,,make it colourful

ps look at the faces of the people in this picture ,,its from a NZ VMX ,,I admit but it shows what I mean

[HDTboy]

I had similar thoughts the other day

[Guido]

So I take it that Bren chch is going to stand up and step up as the next Road Race Commissioner???????????

[bistard]

Hey Bren,I totally aggree with you,there was another thread on KB last week,asking a similar question
Now,dont get me wrong I am not getting at you,but lets all figure out what is needed & offer some options,not just slag the current regime off!!
Hey pay me 80-100k a year & I will run the Nationals,I helped run the Vic club meetings for almost 20 years & they are bigger & better ogranised than our national Champs,they need to be run as a spectacle,not,as oh shit we have to have a national meeting "again"
Look at the Manfield round this year,they had bloody Karts racing,surely,at our own national champs we could have found another class,how about trying the proposed 650 twin class
Further to that,the problem I see with no Kiwis on the road racing world stage is we dont have the "nursery" to start the kids off young,Aussie has 80cc Morowaki class,250 proddie racing is still alive,thats why you see a whole heap of seriously fast 16,17 &18 year old Aussies,they have been riding since they were 8 or 10

[Bren_chch]

So I take it that Bren chch is going to stand up and step up as the next Road Race Commissioner???????????

That’s a good educated and well thought out reply to this topic! With your obvious communication skills you'd be a much better fit for the job!

[scott411]

Hey Bren,I totally aggree with you,there was another thread on KB last week,asking a similar question
Now,dont get me wrong I am not getting at you,but lets all figure out what is needed & offer some options,not just slag the current regime off!!
Hey pay me 80-100k a year & I will run the Nationals,I helped run the Vic club meetings for almost 20 years & they are bigger & better ogranised than our national Champs,they need to be run as a spectacle,not,as oh shit we have to have a national meeting "again"

it is much harder to run a national event and get a big crowd in than run a club series, the riders are the easy ones to please as they are thier to have fun racing, not to be entertained, i do not have the answer to how to do it as i am currently trying to do it with mx here in auckland, its not easy to do as a volunteer,

i think a promotor has to run the national champs, (both road and mx suffer the same problem) a lot of poeple have problems with people making money off these events, but if they get crowds thier, and keep the riders happy enough to turn up then its a good thing,

[steveyb]

I am a blowhard, so can't resist, ;-)
A few separate points here so best dealt with separately.
Career progression for riders: I recently spent a couple of years in the UK and was lucky enough to become good friends with the Italian 125GP champion 2005 who is now in Moto GP 125 championship. The very clear difference between Italy/Spain/France/Germany/Netherlands and the UK/Aust/NZ is the use of the Aprilia RS125 roadbike and 125GP bike as a career developer in the former countries as opposed to in the latter where some riders are bypassing that altogether and going straight to 600.
Not a single one of the top riders from Europe has ridden in a 4 stroke class prior to entering MotoGP. The only 4 stroke bikes Rossi has raced are the new ones and the Sukuka 8 Hr bike! Only the Aust/UK/US riders have developed on 4 stroke bikes. The Europeans are firmly committed to the 2 stroke small bike as the route to learning race craft in a manageble way and Spain and Italy are where all of the world champions of the next few years will be coming from, in general terms.

Of course people will raise the cases of Stroud, Crafar, Doohan, Gardner, Schwantz, Rainey and Lawson, all Superbike riders. But times are different now. They did not really have the opportunities in 2-stroke racing that are available now. The sport is much more sophisitcated than it was even in Crafars era.

In the UK this is now being realised with the rise of the Formula 125/Superteen Cup championships which focus on younger riders on Aprilia RS125 roadbikes. The UK 125GP championship is producing fast new riders such as Casey Stoner, Brad Smith (and what a ride he had on Sunday ay?), Dan Webb, Kev Coghlan. The 2 stroke route is even further recognised with the move of Eugene Laverty to 250GP rather than worldsupersport. Clearly these oportunities are limited, but it is clear from the MotoGP paddock and from talking with team managers therein, that riders from 4 stroke backgrounds are at a distinct disadvantage, the 4 stroke MotoGP era notwithstanding.

So, my advice, and of course I am a wee bit biased, is for younger riders to focus on racing in 2 stroke classes on quality RACING machines, not roadbikes that need ALOT of feckling inorder to turn them into race machines. The Aprilia RS125 is a perfect starting point that quailfies to compete in Streetstock classes. A problem of course, is we tend to end up a bit larger in stature than the latins. This can be combated by moving from 125's to 250's as riders get a bit bigger.

The next question is about where to go to progress a career. Let us make one thing clear, without the very best support, a rider will get swallowed up and spat out where ever they go. Unfortunately, Australia is the graveyard of many riders who might have ambitions in MotoGP. They are successful in training Supersport and Superbike riders (which is really cool) but only those Australians who have gone to UK and/or Europe very soon in their careers are making any mark. This is the take home message. Motorcycle roadracing is a European sport, no ifs, no buts, that is where the powerbase lies, the teams, the sponsorship money and the institutional knowledge. If you want a career in world championship racing, go to Europe. If you want to make money, go to America, if you want to get the shit kicked out of you (figuratively speaking) go to Australia, if you want to have fun, stay here and maybe try Japan as well. From that point of view, our own next hope for world level riding lies with Hayden Fitz. He is now in the 2nd tier of racing in the UK, where BSB is clearly considered to be the best domestic championship in the world. This is where Bayliss, Corser, Toseland, Byrne, Stoner and many others of the modern era have cut their teeth, with many many forays into the European scene at the same time.

Unfortunately you have chosen motorsport as your sporting career. This takes ALOT of MONEY. DO NOT THINK SOMEONE WILL GIVE YOU A RIDE WITHOUT ALOT OF MONEY. Stoners parents mortgaged their home to spend on his racing and then they had to attract more sponsorship. My friend Simone Grotskyj in the Multimedia Team has his dad and cousin working FULL TIME securing sponsorship and support for him to continue. Only at the top level are riders really paid, otherwise they must pay the team a large contribution for the place in the team. So many places are political and many talented riders struggle due to lack of funds. Anthony West is a classic example of the talented but difficult rider who cannot attract enough money to buy a really good ride.

All this is of course very difficult for a family with a 14 year old kiwi kid who is just having a good time to grasp and to commit to. Up rooting, moving to the UK or better, to Spain or Italy, getting established, networking, learning the languages (it is no good speaking only english in the MotoGP paddock!!), getting machines and going racing. All this costs a bomb and you must do the hard yards yourself.

Anyone who stays in NZ will not develop much of an international career unfortunately. Sam Smith is the next example of a talented rider who is on the brink of the next decision point. No doubt this is all in hand, but I have it on good authority that an offer to ride in Euope under the assistance of Simon Crafar was turned down. I hope that he will not live to regret that and wish him and his supporters all the best. BUT, the route he and Haydie are taking are routes to WSBK. This route will now never lead to MotoGP for all but the most chosen of riders. It is even becoming less likely that James Toseland will be given a MotoGP ride. Superbike racing is just too different to MotoGP racing. Bear in mind that the only current MotoGP riders who have raced SBK seriously are Edwards, Vermulen, Hopkins a bit and Hayden. All the others are 125, 250, 500cc graduates.

Oh and by the way, after canning it for a few years, 2007 sees the reinstatement of the British 250GP championship!!!!

Food for thought.

Enjoy ;-)

Steve

NZ championship someother time ay?

[Guido]

Bren chch. You stood up and were critical of what has been built up again over the last 10 years by volunteers. Now, you step up, and you try to improve things further. Thats the test.

A good number of your points are valid, only thing is, a good number of them are also out of MNZ/Organizing Club/Road Race Commissioner control. All of your points re crap food, crap toilets, crap facilities are circuit owner matters.
Most circuits have contracts with caterers. Circuit hirers must use the contract caterers. No exceptions, other than something like V8 supercars, where the hirer is paying top dollar for circuit hire and dictates things like caterers. Circuit hire for a Championship is arounf $15000 for the weekend. And remember, that only hires the strip of tarmac. Nothing else.
Crap toilets, well they may not be the best, but look at the users who make something that is borderline, into a smelly filthy shithole. Yes, I did say borderline, because they are just that.
Crap facilities. Well we certainly have those, and that is most definitely a circuit owner problem.

I understand that Manfield is addressing a number of these points, but the downside is that circuit hire is about to increase in a directly proportional manner.

Ive been to Phillip Island a number of times myself. Yes, what great events they put on year after year. They also have State Government funding for promotion of MotoGP and WSB events and a Circuit Owner who continues to invest in the actual racing surface AND the necessary infrastrucutre, BUT, and this is the cruncher, V8 Supercars and the Professional Promoter of the Australian Superbike Championships, dont want to go th Phillip Island, because it is TOO expensive to hire.

You also mention the Britten Memorial meeting. I hear it was very good, but why did it only happen once???? Possibly because it lost so much money that the backer wasnt prepared to risk that much again. Same as the Vince Sharpe Endurance meeting at Pukekohe. Good advertising. Good fields, but insufficient income.

As I said at the the start, You've stood up and been critical, now step up and do BETTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bren_chch]

Bren chch. You stood up and were critical of what has been built up again over the last 10 years by volunteers. Now, you step up, and you try to improve things further. Thats the test.

--------------------------------



As I said at the the start, You've stood up and been critical, now step up and do BETTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Guido. good comments! BUT let me say this again, so YOU can understand it better... I posted this on behalf of someone who has no account. ok, you with me now, good and thanks!

I've retyped the intro in the first thread so you dont go confusing yaself again.

[ajturbo]

I am a blowhard, so can't resist, ;-)
A few separate points here so best dealt with separately.
Career progression for riders: I recently spent a couple of years in the UK and was lucky enough to become good friends with the Italian 125GP champion 2005 who is now in Moto GP 125 championship. The very clear difference between Italy/Spain/France/Germany/Netherlands and the UK/Aust/NZ is the use of the Aprilia RS125 roadbike and 125GP bike as a career developer in the former countries as opposed to in the latter where some riders are bypassing that altogether and going straight to 600.
Not a single one of the top riders from Europe has ridden in a 4 stroke class prior to entering MotoGP. The only 4 stroke bikes Rossi has raced are the new ones and the Sukuka 8 Hr bike! Only the Aust/UK/US riders have developed on 4 stroke bikes. The Europeans are firmly committed to the 2 stroke small bike as the route to learning race craft in a manageble way and Spain and Italy are where all of the world champions of the next few years will be coming from, in general terms.

Of course people will raise the cases of Stroud, Crafar, Doohan, Gardner, Schwantz, Rainey and Lawson, all Superbike riders. But times are different now. They did not really have the opportunities in 2-stroke racing that are available now. The sport is much more sophisitcated than it was even in Crafars era.

In the UK this is now being realised with the rise of the Formula 125/Superteen Cup championships which focus on younger riders on Aprilia RS125 roadbikes. The UK 125GP championship is producing fast new riders such as Casey Stoner, Brad Smith (and what a ride he had on Sunday ay?), Dan Webb, Kev Coghlan. The 2 stroke route is even further recognised with the move of Eugene Laverty to 250GP rather than worldsupersport. Clearly these oportunities are limited, but it is clear from the MotoGP paddock and from talking with team managers therein, that riders from 4 stroke backgrounds are at a distinct disadvantage, the 4 stroke MotoGP era notwithstanding.

So, my advice, and of course I am a wee bit biased, is for younger riders to focus on racing in 2 stroke classes on quality RACING machines, not roadbikes that need ALOT of feckling inorder to turn them into race machines. The Aprilia RS125 is a perfect starting point that quailfies to compete in Streetstock classes. A problem of course, is we tend to end up a bit larger in stature than the latins. This can be combated by moving from 125's to 250's as riders get a bit bigger.

The next question is about where to go to progress a career. Let us make one thing clear, without the very best support, a rider will get swallowed up and spat out where ever they go. Unfortunately, Australia is the graveyard of many riders who might have ambitions in MotoGP. They are successful in training Supersport and Superbike riders (which is really cool) but only those Australians who have gone to UK and/or Europe very soon in their careers are making any mark. This is the take home message. Motorcycle roadracing is a European sport, no ifs, no buts, that is where the powerbase lies, the teams, the sponsorship money and the institutional knowledge. If you want a career in world championship racing, go to Europe. If you want to make money, go to America, if you want to get the shit kicked out of you (figuratively speaking) go to Australia, if you want to have fun, stay here and maybe try Japan as well. From that point of view, our own next hope for world level riding lies with Hayden Fitz. He is now in the 2nd tier of racing in the UK, where BSB is clearly considered to be the best domestic championship in the world. This is where Bayliss, Corser, Toseland, Byrne, Stoner and many others of the modern era have cut their teeth, with many many forays into the European scene at the same time.

Unfortunately you have chosen motorsport as your sporting career. This takes ALOT of MONEY. DO NOT THINK SOMEONE WILL GIVE YOU A RIDE WITHOUT ALOT OF MONEY. Stoners parents mortgaged their home to spend on his racing and then they had to attract more sponsorship. My friend Simone Grotskyj in the Multimedia Team has his dad and cousin working FULL TIME securing sponsorship and support for him to continue. Only at the top level are riders really paid, otherwise they must pay the team a large contribution for the place in the team. So many places are political and many talented riders struggle due to lack of funds. Anthony West is a classic example of the talented but difficult rider who cannot attract enough money to buy a really good ride.

All this is of course very difficult for a family with a 14 year old kiwi kid who is just having a good time to grasp and to commit to. Up rooting, moving to the UK or better, to Spain or Italy, getting established, networking, learning the languages (it is no good speaking only english in the MotoGP paddock!!), getting machines and going racing. All this costs a bomb and you must do the hard yards yourself.

Anyone who stays in NZ will not develop much of an international career unfortunately. Sam Smith is the next example of a talented rider who is on the brink of the next decision point. No doubt this is all in hand, but I have it on good authority that an offer to ride in Euope under the assistance of Simon Crafar was turned down. I hope that he will not live to regret that and wish him and his supporters all the best. BUT, the route he and Haydie are taking are routes to WSBK. This route will now never lead to MotoGP for all but the most chosen of riders. It is even becoming less likely that James Toseland will be given a MotoGP ride. Superbike racing is just too different to MotoGP racing. Bear in mind that the only current MotoGP riders who have raced SBK seriously are Edwards, Vermulen, Hopkins a bit and Hayden. All the others are 125, 250, 500cc graduates.

Oh and by the way, after canning it for a few years, 2007 sees the reinstatement of the British 250GP championship!!!!

Food for thought.

Enjoy ;-)

Steve

NZ championship someother time ay?

hey .. thanks for that bit of insite... i knew it was hard, but not that hard...
but why should i tell my son luke?... he has a dream, he watches the bike races on tv.. and says.. i'm gona do that!..

i will not at this stage say or do anything that may put out a fire in his belly, at his age i didn't even know what school i was going to next week... let alone what i was going to do the next week!! or the years ahead..
he talks with Hayden ,when he is in town, this young man has helped luke in only positive ways...

please note: i am not trying to put you down...
infact i thank you for the hard truths of this sport...
now how do you say.." wow you've got nice tit's " in spanish?...

[dangerous]

As I said at the the start, You've stood up and been critical, now step up and do BETTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It takes and would take... more than one person to make a difference, why dont you be off some good and offer to help Bren out

[mickeyboy]

Guido , what would you like Brendon to do ? Bring you a hammer and nails so you can bang up some more fences ? You say built up by volunteers ? are you joking ? You say out of MNZ control. This situation has been the same for 20 years and we (the motorcycling fraternity) have accepted it. How many emails have been sent to circuit owners from MNZ and Clubs asking about improving the standard of toilets and catering for "their event".
Hey get this , after speaking to Wendy (a very hard working dedicated volunteer) from Motorcycling Canterbury, I went and spoke to the Canterbury Car Club Secretary 3 months ago The CCC are responsible for Track Hire at Ruapuna , the conversation went like this " Hey Nola , the Food here is Shit" "she said " I agree , I will talk to the Food people about improving things" The food people said basically , well that's how it is, Nola says "hey well if you can't do better then get lost ". The CCC are renegotiating all Food contracts and have appointed a proffesional catering company to co-ordinate things.You know what the problem is Guido , WE ACCEPT JUNK SO THATS WHAT WE GET ! We are even so dumbed down we think we can't complain , but just have to suffer in the corner. That's what this is about, setting the standard we want and not letting the lunatics run the asylum, This is our sport not the circuit owners.

Mick

[steveyb]

hey .. thanks for that bit of insite... i knew it was hard, but not that hard...
but why should i tell my son luke?... he has a dream, he watches the bike races on tv.. and says.. i'm gona do that!..

i will not at this stage say or do anything that may put out a fire in his belly, at his age i didn't even know what school i was going to next week... let alone what i was going to do the next week!! or the years ahead..
he talks with Hayden ,when he is in town, this young man has helped luke in only positive ways...

please note: i am not trying to put you down...
infact i thank you for the hard truths of this sport...
now how do you say.." wow you've got nice tit's " in spanish?...

Hi AJ.
I am not a dad (yet, that happens in June!! Arrrggghhhh????) so I can't hope to know what to really do in that situation.
My gut feeling is obviously to sit down and talk it through in a reasoned manner. One thing I did not mention before is the environmental differences between here and in Italy. For Simone as the winner of the Italian championship, it was expected, not a dream, that he would ride in the world championship. Of course that took money, but they could find it due to the profile of motorcycle racing in Italy and Europe. Not that that helps you much, but can put things into perspective about what an uphill battle it will be for a kid from NZ.

My personal opinion, and it is only that, is to network a bit around the place to find someone who can help you run Luke on a 125GP bike. Paul Cook in AKL might be the man? There is a real nice one for sale in Dunedin for $4500 that was Mel Jacksons bike, Mandy New/Paul Cooks before that. It is a good bike, indeed it has TiN coated forks which we did, not many bikes have those. Luke can run this bike for many seasons, learn about riding, suspension set up, testing, and mechanicing. These bikes look complicated, but if you keep them standard and don't try to be too flash harry, and follow the manual, they are not really. And they are not really all that dear to run in a club setting. One crank ($500) will last at least 2-3 seasons and one club season will take only 2 pistons at the most.

Now, this allows you to plan with Luke to take the bike to Australia (along with a few other Kiwis; Paul Cook, Glen, Sam Flynn, Ivan maybe?? We'll see) and ride at the MotoGP meeting in the Australian 125GP support race. This can mean some good exposure and also exposure to the MotoGP scene. Now with that in mind, I will most likely be spending the Aust GP weekend with the Multimedia team and Simone (Raffaele da Rosa who had a good ride on Sunday is in that team also, and Andrea Ianonne and Pol Espargaro were Simo's teammates last year), so I will be attempting to organise for any of our boys that go over to spend time with Simo. Not finalised yet, but should be doable.

The skills learned are then directly transferable to riding on the international scene, which is not always the case with 4 stroke type bikes where class rules differ from country to country and these bikes are big and can bite HARD! Bearing in mind you can take that 125 to any racing country in the world, put gas in it and race!!

There are quite a few 125 knowledgable people around who can assist. Taking the bike to Christchurch to race is also a great idea. With Steve Ward and Pete Jones tthere the junior scene there is huge and hugely supportive. I am thinking about helping out Sam Flynn (not that I have done much yet, trying to get my own affairs in order first, don't worry Sam, will be in touch!!), so if it were to work out that we had 3 or 4 or more young 125 riders in the general Manawatu/Wairarapa district then maybe we could work out a real support and training programme of our own. The important point there, is that he needs to be riding EVERY possible chance. If it gets to the point that he is riding only when he (you) can afford it then.... you get the point.

But, the earlier Luke starts on 125, the better. He will not hurt himself anymore than on a 150, but a huge amount less than on a 4 stroke and will learn all those set up skills that are not available, or difficult to learn, on roadbike based machines. Why spend money on 150's or 250 4 stoke bikes when 125's are in fact a bit cheaper, and are real racebikes? And after that, if he shows the skill and dedication then there are people around who can help with a 250 GP bike.

After that, it is up to him and his family as to how much support he will have, does he want to move to Oz, to Europe, to UK???? Will he commit when he knows how much work it really is? Will he live on the bones of his arse to make it happen? Ask Dom Jones. He is driving a small van/camper around the US on his own, sorting out his affairs, bike, racing, the lot. Doing the hard yards!!

Like any thing worth having of course, it does not fall off the back of a truck. Perhaps have him meet some top NZ sports people somehow and find out about the dedication and training and sacrifice that is required to reach the top. It's no game of skittles ay?

And by the way: Ammazza bella raggazza, hai le tette bellissime!! or maybe: Ouh la la ma belle, tu as les roploplos aussi belles!! or Hoi schat, jij hebt erg mooie titjes!!

Enjoy ;-)

Steve