Need solicitor 4 offer on property?

[Mrs Busa Pete]

Why not? No point in fronting up with more than you need to.

Well you have to pay eventually so whats the diff.

[2much]

My old man deals with this all the time and i can highly recommend him, he certainly knows his shit and will look after you for a reasonable price (plus he's a biker). He's based in the Naki but has clients throughout the country due to his proven record. I know he's currently working for a mate who's selling his place in waikanae, as well as my place in Te Puke thats currently on the market. PM me if you want his details.

[dickytoo]

Well you have to pay eventually so whats the diff.

cause if it all goes sour, you could lose your entire deposit! so, the smaller the deposit, the smaller the damage to your pocket.

happened to a work mate once. his lawyer stuffed up and the deal fell through. when he tried to get his deposit back (20K), he was told that it was being used to pay costs etc and in the end, he had to walk away from it. no legal recourse. harsh lesson learnt the hard way

[Mrs Busa Pete]

cause if it all goes sour, you could lose your entire deposit! so, the smaller the deposit, the smaller the damage to your pocket.

happened to a work mate once. his lawyer stuffed up and the deal fell through. when he tried to get his deposit back (20K), he was told that it was being used to pay costs etc and in the end, he had to walk away from it. no legal recourse. harsh lesson learnt the hard way

You can only lose your deposit if you have gone unconditional and the only way a deal can fall over after that is if you pull out.
So i would suggest your work mate is not telling you the full story.

Hear say is a damaging thing don't you think.

[degrom]

When I bought my first house, my lawyer didn't seem to tell me anything about the possible issues with cross-leases.

When I sold my first house, their lawyer noticed all the things wrong with my property (and I had to drop the price).

Lesson: never use the lawyer (demon) recommended by the real estate agent (demon).

(...and try to avoid cross-leases).

The place we are looking at is cross-lease section.

any idea what it will cost to convert to a freehold title?

Thx.

[dickytoo]

You can only lose your deposit if you have gone unconditional and the only way a deal can fall over after that is if you pull out.
So i would suggest your work mate is not telling you the full story.

Hear say is a damaging thing don't you think.

nope, there was a lot more detail.and there's a lot of way to lose your money.
just a bit of advise. he's welcome to ignore if he wants. tell the guys who bought leaky houses and found out that their legal warrantees don't hold water!

[Drum]

This from http://www.howtolaw.co.nz/html/ml103.asp

What is a cross-lease?
A cross-lease is a scheme where the land and buildings are owned by the occupants of the buildings as tenants in common, who each join in the long-term leasing of a flat to its occupants. (If you own property with others as "tenants in common", your share of the property does not pass to the other owner or owners should you die, as it would if you owned the property as "joint tenants"; instead your share passes according to your will.)

Disadvantages of cross-leases
Potential homeowners should be aware of the many disadvantages of cross-leases. These include:

Decision-making – Most decisions require the unanimous support of all the owners of the cross-leased units; for example, decisions concerning common spaces such as driveways or car parking areas. If the proposed course of action isn’t agreed to unanimously then either the proposal cannot proceed or there may be a lengthy arbitration process.
Alterations – Generally, cross-leases prevent an owner making any structural extensions or additions (such as a conservatory) to the buildings without the prior consent of all the other cross-lease owners. Further, the cross-lease plan would need to be altered to show the alterations; this would involve additional surveying and legal costs.

Converting from cross-lease to freehold title
A cross-lease owner might never experience those disadvantages, but it is worth considering the option of changing the title to the property from cross-lease to freehold ("fee simple"). Freehold gives the owner exclusive rights of use and enjoyment of the land, and is the form of title for most land in New Zealand.

To convert to freehold you will need to ensure, among other things, that you comply with the requirements of the district plan (for example, as to site area and distance between houses) and that a new survey plan is approved by your local council. You should consult a lawyer for further information on the requirements for converting to freehold in your particular case.

Cautionary notes
Be aware of recent law changes: for example, in Christchurch the minimum section size has been increased in recent years. Thus many properties will no longer be considered large enough for a cross-lease. The Law Commission has recommended the abolition of cross-leasing as a form of land title. To be aware of any changes in the law regarding cross-leasing, you should consult a lawyer.

[Drum]

A new survey plan could cost $2 to $3 grand I'd say, plus legal fees (up to $2k at a guess).

You'd also have to get the approval of the other party, and hopefully get them to pay half the cost.

And then if you need a new fence, could be another $5k or more, depending on how much you can do yourself.

If the other party on the cross lease is a good sort then there's not nessecarily a problem, but you can never be guaranteed that they will keep living there.

Edit: Given that there is a cross lease, YOU DEFINATELY NEED A LAWYER TO LOOK IT OVER!

[Mrs Busa Pete]

tell the guys who bought leaky houses and found out that their legal warrantees don't hold water!

I have known of 2 people that have bought leaky homes both bought privately and when i told one lot to make sure they get a building report done they said they didn't need to because the guy was a friend and pretty trustworthy go figure.
I have never sold a house without telling them to get a building report done and when i have known there is something wrong with the house i have told them.
Leaky homes are not generally listed with an agency because we are legally bound to tell any client what they are.Also if a house has these problems they are now marked on the lim report so make sure you check it.

[degrom]

A new survey plan could cost $2 to $3 grand I'd say, plus legal fees (up to $2k at a guess).

You'd also have to get the approval of the other party, and hopefully get them to pay half the cost.

And then if you need a new fence, could be another $5k or more, depending on how much you can do yourself.

If the other party on the cross lease is a good sort then there's not nessecarily a problem, but you can never be guaranteed that they will keep living there.

Edit: Given that there is a cross lease, YOU DEFINATELY NEED A LAWYER TO LOOK IT OVER!

Yes.. I am going to add a condition to the offer that includes that I need approval from my lawyer/solicitor.

I was not sure if you needed your lawyer to put in an offer. I now realize that you don't need a lawyer for the offer,but that you need to add conditions that will cover you in all ways. (At least one that includes that you need your lawyer to have a look at all the papers before you start your 30year sentence!!!)

[Bloody Mad Woman (BMW)]

Gibson Sheat - in Wellington and Hutt Valley. I work for the conveyancing team - they are excellent. We also have mortgage broker at no cost to you. As an indication of costs (indication only) Buying $1,180 includes title searches disbursements etc + GST. PM me if you want more info.

[Mrs Busa Pete]

[QUOTE=degrom;1060231]Yes.. I am going to add a condition to the offer that includes that I need approval from my lawyer/solicitor.
This clause gives you not protection what so ever. Put in a due diligence clause if you are wanting to check cross lease shit out.

[Toaster]

Thanks for the really good advice... Will take it all in to consideration.

One need to start somewhere and it would be really silly not to ask as many questions as you can... (Even if it's on a Bikes forum.. LOL)

It will likely be a standard S&P agreement - you can fax it to me if you like and I can have a quick look before you seek legal advice (I am a commercial banker).

[Toaster]

Gibson Sheat - in Wellington and Hutt Valley. I work for the conveyancing team - they are excellent. We also have mortgage broker at no cost to you. As an indication of costs (indication only) Buying $1,180 includes title searches disbursements etc + GST. PM me if you want more info.

Is Maree Hannah still working in the Wellington office?

[Winston001]

The place we are looking at is cross-lease section.

any idea what it will cost to convert to a freehold title?

Thx.

Hmmm........some good advice here and some not so good.

1. If this is you first property purchase you should involve a lawyer as early as you can. As Doc said

You are pulling my tit's right. Entering into the biggest purchase of your life, and you are wondering if it's worth the cost of a legal advice.

2. It isn't essential to take the Agreement for Sale and Purchase to your lawyer before signing but agents will often fax it if you insist, so your lawyer gets a chance to search the title and check the conditions in the Agreement.

3. Don't be mislead by experienced property investors who only involve their lawyers at the last minute. They sometimes know as much as their lawyer on the practical matters. You however are a long way from being knowledgable. Play it safe - this is the biggest investment and biggest loan in your life. It can go wrong.................

4. The conveyancing costs on buying and selling property are minimal. The real money goes to the real estate agents who are much cleverer than lawyers. Buyers forget this because the $10 - 20,000 commission is paid by the seller but they soon learn when it comes time to sell!

5. IMHO don't look for the cheapest lawyer - you want someone experienced and competent, and usually that person doesn't need to discount fees. In conveyancing law, experience is by far the most valuable quality. A bit like surgeons - you want a guy who is doing the work every day, not someone desperate for the phone to ring.

6. Changing from cross-lease to fee-simple is impossible in some situations - that is the reason for crossleasing in the first place. Having said that, it's good idea if it is possible. There is a cost and requires the other owners cooperation - mind you, its a win for them too.

7. I'd recommend Miriam Menzies as a very competent no-nonsense lawyer in Upper Hutt. ph 04 528-6719

Good luck.