World-wide Vote for the next US President?

[Drunken Monkey]

Do I detekt a subtle chaИge to cyЯillic there, Mike?

[Coldkiwi]

The Rainbow Warrior and Pacific bomb tests are legitimate reasons to criticise the French, just as aspects of British policy (e.g. Northern Ireland, Iraq) have also been wrong in the view of many. It is hypocritical and unfair to extend our dislike of particular actions or policies to a general dislike of a people or nation. This is just prejudice. The French on the whole are no better or worse, moral or immoral, wise or foolish than others. They just speak a different language and live their lives differently than you.

And however much the aftermath of the Rainbow Warrior affair rankles, this is Realpolitik and all powerful nations behave the same way. Delve into modern British history and you will uncover some very unsavoury actions...

Well, I did say neither the Poms nor the French were covering themselves in glory before the US arrived in WW2 and I'm not harbouring any illusions that they're squeaky clean now either.

As another aside, I must say my scepticism towards the idea of 'they're just living different lives' is a hindered by the number of people who have returned from trips to France and complained how rude the locals have been. Admittedly, most of these have been centred around the Parisians but its hardly a glowing reflection when compared to people who have travelled to other countries around the globe and done nothing on their return but marvel at how friendly they were (canadians, hawaiians and fijians are the ones I've personally experienced but the italians readily spring ot mind too).

[Coldkiwi]

Whilst we're on the subject of 'cheese-eating surrender monkeys', no-one has mentioned Vichy France yet. Without wanting to bash the French (too much), they have arguably still not come to terms with the fact that a large part of their population and civil service gladly collaborated with the Germans following their (possibly premature) surrender.

He said it Mike, not me!!


Thanks for the history El Dopa. Makes interesting reading. I would agree about the T34 being a winner, as I recall from my military nerd days (can't help it when living in Hawaii!) that the T34 was used by a lot of countries for many, many years after WW2 - a bit like the A4 skyhawk is for so many airforces these days despite being designed in the 1950's.
"If it ain't broke, Don't fix it!"

[Drunken Monkey]

... by the number of people who have returned from trips to France and complained how rude the locals have been. Admittedly, most of these have been centred around the Parisians ...

From personal experience, it seemed to me the people who thought the French were rude would typically ask for help with a drawly "hey maaaate, can yew..." or twangy "Hey misterrr..."

I would ask, in probably the worst 'french' (I use the term loosely) you've ever heard for assistance, and was always greeted with a smile and "Engleesh is ok, you need to..."

The French just don't appreciate people who don't even try.

The Germans were much the same, although 2 years of schoolboy German and an interest in WWII parephenalia and films made it much easier to attempt communication in that tongue.

But like I said, that's just my personal experience...

[El Dopa]

He said it Mike, not me!!

The Rainbow Warrior and Pacific bomb tests are legitimate reasons to criticise the French, just as aspects of British policy (e.g. Northern Ireland, Iraq) have also been wrong in the view of many. It is hypocritical and unfair to extend our dislike of particular actions or policies to a general dislike of a people or nation. This is just prejudice. The French on the whole are no better or worse, moral or immoral, wise or foolish than others. They just speak a different language and live their lives differently than you.

And however much the aftermath of the Rainbow Warrior affair rankles, this is Realpolitik and all powerful nations behave the same way. Delve into modern British history and you will uncover some very unsavoury actions...

Hmm, a bit disapointed that adding a dash of troll to my post didn't provoke more of a response .

However, I agree with Mikes comments. There's plenty of shamful behaviour in British history that gets ignored. Might makes right and unrestrained power corrupts

[Drunken Monkey]

....Might makes right...

Might does make right. What is law? Law is only as good as enforcement...

...unrestrained power corrupts

Absolute power corrupts absolutely?

[El Dopa]

Might does make right. What is law? Law is only as good as enforcement...

Absolute power corrupts absolutely?

Kinda what I was getting at. Dragging this thread back towards the original topic, the discrepancies between the ideals governments profess to aspire to, and the actions they actually carry out to retain control of their own power base (usuallly blatantly opposed to the words coming out of their fat, lying mouths) never ceases to disapoint me.

[Coldkiwi]

From personal experience, it seemed to me the people who thought the French were rude would typically ask for help with a drawly "hey maaaate, can yew..." or twangy "Hey misterrr..."

I would ask, in probably the worst 'french' (I use the term loosely) you've ever heard for assistance, and was always greeted with a smile and "Engleesh is ok, you need to..."

The French just don't appreciate people who don't even try.

that I could understand but when you get to hear several stories of relatively couth (sp?) people asking for assistance in Paris and the locals playing dumb (until some non-pom asked) ...its a little harder to keep the tar off the locals.

Dunno... maybe I should just stop prattling on and go there for myself (and always retain a train ticket to flee to Italy in case I need therapy from the food!)

[Coldkiwi]

[QUOTE=Drunken Monkey]Might does make right. What is law? Law is only as good as enforcement...
QUOTE]

Good point. So does the World Court actually have any ability to enforce the correct application of power? Last I recall hearing about it, the US were ignoring some ruling from them...

[Drunken Monkey]

that I could understand but when you get to hear several stories of relatively couth (sp?) people asking for assistance in Paris and the locals playing dumb (until some non-pom asked) ...its a little harder to keep the tar off the locals.

Dunno... maybe I should just stop prattling on and go there for myself (and always retain a train ticket to flee to Italy in case I need therapy from the food!)

True, the French have a disdain for the English (and also Americans) which can only be rivalled by the English disdain for the French - I guess no matter how polite you are, you may get an up-turned nose if you look/sound English. Lucky for me I don't look English.
I've never heard of the French stand up on a British Airways flight singing 'stand up if you hate the English' (Yes, I did meet a pom who stood up on an Air France flight to HK singing 'stand up if you hate the French'...

France is a nice country, especially the South, like Nice. Provance is also a lovely place. Unfortunately I've only had the pleasure of visiting for a few days. My parents recently returned from a 6 week long stay in France.

[Drunken Monkey]

Good point. So does the World Court actually have any ability to enforce the correct application of power? Last I recall hearing about it, the US were ignoring some ruling from them...

Only in lip-service. It's easy for them [World Court] to chase after individual loonies like Milosevic, but when a powerful Nation 'defies' them, well what can you do...
Remeber the Yanks, et al, proceeded with the Iraq invasion despite not having UN Security Council approval. Why? Because they could.

[Ghost Lemur]

Yeah unfortunately like everything else on the world stage, when the US couldn't get their mandatory loopholes put it (You know the ones that let them say one thing and bag on countries you disobey and then do another thing).

In the case of the Landmine treaty they wanting to continue using and selling them. In the case of the world court they wanted their "piece" keepers to be immune from prosecution.

Sort of says something I think about just how willing the US is to stand by internation law. But everyone being held as a Enemy Combatant (I mean WTF) already knows that anyway.

[Indiana_Jones]

We're screwed, some Asian nation is gonna invade us for Lebensraum and I doubt any western nation will help us

-Indy

[Lou Girardin]

Now, why would the Pom's be so loathed in Europe. Could it be;
Soccer louts, 18 to 30's package holiday-makers, crims hiding on the Costa del Sol.
Booze buying trips to Calais. Beats me.
But I'm told the Germans are as bad. Just better looking.

[El Dopa]

But I'm told the Germans are as bad. Just better looking.

Whilst I agree with almost everything you have said, I take considerable offence at being thought of as less good looking than a German.

If you'll excuse the decent into mouth-foaming xenophobic stereotyping for one moment, they're a bunch of unshaven sausage-munching saurkraut-swilling squareheads. And that's just the women.