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Thread: Insurance questions

  1. #31
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    As far as depreciation goes.... that is so true. We have to do it ourselves. If we over-insure our assets that is our tough titties.

    All I do is ring the insurer/bank each year and drop the value down to what I think market value is. Helps reduce premiums as well.

  2. #32
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    What a cop out.

    If insurance companies did not know the value of what they are liable to pay out for if the insured item goes missing then what are they baseing the premiums on?

    There are two ways to value an item.

    1. What someone will pay for it.
    2. What someone will sell it for.

    Simple as that.

    The item should be insured for a mutally agreed amount between what someone would buy it for (the insurance company) and what someone will sell it for (the owner of said item)

    So if insurance companies (as they do) are not willing to put a figure on what they would buy the item for in the first place and put it down to "market value" (what others would buy it for) then it leaves plenty of room for upset people. The "agreed value" policies are a good way of combating this but the problem is most people simply jump into insurance because they think as long as they have insurance they are fine.

    Argueably could be said to read the fine print but who does?

    Insurance companies have a responisbility (or should have) to front up with a figure of what they think any item is worth. Not after the item is damaged or missing but before hand so everyone is playing on the same ballpark.

    If insurance companies want to take a stand that they are not valuers (and they should have valuers on staff to value items at the time insurance policies are drawn up) then when any item is found to be overinsured they should refund the premiums that have been overpaid.

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  3. #33
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    2nd November 2005 - 07:09
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetboy View Post
    What is the insurance company not providing? How do we know what your car/house/bike is worth? We insure your property - we don't value it.
    Why do we not value it? Because if we GUESS the market value of your bike, for example, and we guess a lower value that what it actually is, then in the event of a claim we have actually under-insured your bike and we would be liable for this error. We are not in the business of guessing.

    By the way I am speaking from a broking point of view. On all of the insurance documentation we send out (renewal invitations, new policies, coverage summaries etc) we ask you to check the details and advise us if we have something wrong.
    Not quite true because the Proposal is signed by Insured person as per the Declaration (which applies through out Insurance period, including Renewals) plus you will find that the Insurance Company will be liable for your mistake in most cases because you are acting as their agent and it is unlikely they will seek recompense from you.........have seen Ombusdman Cases which seesm crazy but I guess it is Consumer protection.

    Plus with say Contents Insurance, if you suffer a $4,000 loss and your total unspecified Sum Insured is $40,000 but should be say $60,000 you will still get $4,000 as under insurance does not apply with Domestic Household Insurance.

    Sorry just adding a bit of extra

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by cowboyz
    Insurance companies have a responisbility (or should have) to front up with a figure of what they think any item is worth. Not after the item is damaged or missing but before hand so everyone is playing on the same ballpark.
    Why? We insure, we don't value. We never see the item in question unless you make a claim. How do I know what a ZX9R with 100,000km's is worth vs. a ZX9R with 250,000km's?

    Quote Originally Posted by coyboyz
    So if insurance companies (as they do) are not willing to put a figure on what they would buy the item for in the first place and put it down to "market value" (what others would buy it for) then it leaves plenty of room for upset people. The "agreed value" policies are a good way of combating this but the problem is most people simply jump into insurance because they think as long as they have insurance they are fine.
    Its called a 'market value' policy because the whole point of insurance is to put you back in the same position you were in before the loss. You might say your bike is worth $10,000 but if it's market value (and we get 2 independant valuations at claim time) is only $5,000 then you have financially gained from the claim. Thats missing the whole point of insurance.


    Quote Originally Posted by coyboyz
    Argueably could be said to read the fine print but who does?
    That's up to you, not us. We give you the terms of business but we can't force you to read it. Most wordings are in plain english.

    Quote Originally Posted by coyboyz
    If insurance companies want to take a stand that they are not valuers (and they should have valuers on staff to value items at the time insurance policies are drawn up) then when any item is found to be overinsured they should refund the premiums that have been overpaid.
    Again, and with all due respect, we are insurers. You tell us what to insure and we do it. We could go on to say that its a requirement to have a WOF on the bike otherwise your claim may be declined.. You could argue that its our job to make sure there's a WOF or refund the premium...

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by cowboyz View Post
    What a cop out.

    Not really. They cannot see what they are Insuring and a 1996 Car can vary in condition, mileage etc so have different values.
    The Consumer knows what they paid and can easily look up a car / bike value.
    With contents it is not so much an issue and with say jewellery you would always get a value plus the Sum Insured for specified items is plus Gst so this allows for undervaluing.


    If insurance companies did not know the value of what they are liable to pay out for if the insured item goes missing then what are they baseing the premiums on?

    Utmost Good Faith and the fact that one would not expect to insure something without checking values etc.
    There are two ways to value an item.

    1. What someone will pay for it.
    2. What someone will sell it for.

    Simple as that.

    The item should be insured for a mutally agreed amount between what someone would buy it for (the insurance company) and what someone will sell it for (the owner of said item)

    So you expect Insurer to assess someones contents, car which will cost them money which will put up premiums and Internet access means than we can all find out values of things.

    So if insurance companies (as they do) are not willing to put a figure on what they would buy the item for in the first place and put it down to "market value" (what others would buy it for) then it leaves plenty of room for upset people. The "agreed value" policies are a good way of combating this but the problem is most people simply jump into insurance because they think as long as they have insurance they are fine.

    Argueably could be said to read the fine print but who does?

    All Plain Kiwi these days

    Insurance companies have a responisbility (or should have) to front up with a figure of what they think any item is worth. Not after the item is damaged or missing but before hand so everyone is playing on the same ballpark.

    No they don't. Onus is with Insured person..............in the main the settlement is fair plus with contents the Insurer will normally use a preferred supplier which gives say a 25% discount so Insured person benefits if there Sum Insured is low.

    If insurance companies want to take a stand that they are not valuers (and they should have valuers on staff to value items at the time insurance policies are drawn up) then when any item is found to be overinsured they should refund the premiums that have been overpaid.

    They are Insurance Company's, not valuers......with agreed values it works both ways.........if car is worth $2,000 but agreed value is $5,000 then the premium difference is not $3,000 and would unlikely be even after 10 years premium but would the Insured person complain...?

    ..........................

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grahameeboy View Post
    Not quite true because the Proposal is signed by Insured person as per the Declaration (which applies through out Insurance period, including Renewals) plus you will find that the Insurance Company will be liable for your mistake in most cases because you are acting as their agent and it is unlikely they will seek recompense from you.........have seen Ombusdman Cases which seesm crazy but I guess it is Consumer protection.

    Plus with say Contents Insurance, if you suffer a $4,000 loss and your total unspecified Sum Insured is $40,000 but should be say $60,000 you will still get $4,000 as under insurance does not apply with Domestic Household Insurance.

    Sorry just adding a bit of extra
    We are not agents - we are not tied to any insurer. We are brokers which means we work for you. Therefore the insurance company will not re-imburse us for our mistake (would you?).

    Under your contents example= yes you may very well get the $4,000 but if your house burns down, the maximum settlement figure is the $40,000.

    No worries ask away

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetboy View Post
    We are not agents - we are not tied to any insurer. We are brokers which means we work for you. Therefore the insurance company will not re-imburse us for our mistake (would you?).

    Under your contents example= yes you may very well get the $4,000 but if your house burns down, the maximum settlement figure is the $40,000.

    No worries ask away
    I would have to disagree with your view of 'Agent' (I used that in it's loosest sense because I know there are Agents and Brokers).....it has been proven by the Ombudsman.....the Insurer was made to pay and make a decision whether to claim back from Broker.

    Agree the rest, just raising 1 particular point for others benefit.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grahameeboy View Post
    I would have to disagree with your view of 'Agent' (I used that in it's loosest sense because I know there are Agents and Brokers).....it has been proven by the Ombudsman.....the Insurer was made to pay and make a decision whether to claim back from Broker.

    Agree the rest, just raising 1 particular point for others benefit.
    Yeah no worries.
    A quck explanation of agents and brokers can be found on this site, or this site, or here.
    I guess there are certain circumstances where this would arise, but (as a broker anyway) if the insurance company did not back us up on our error, we would be held liable. The insurer relies on us to get the correct information for them so the mistake is certainly not theirs....

    I guess it all depends on the circumstances

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetboy View Post
    Yeah no worries.
    A quck explanation of agents and brokers can be found on this site, or this site, or here.
    I guess there are certain circumstances where this would arise, but (as a broker anyway) if the insurance company did not back us up on our error, we would be held liable. The insurer relies on us to get the correct information for them so the mistake is certainly not theirs....

    I guess it all depends on the circumstances
    In this case, the Insurer was made to pay for the Brokers mistake....I guess it is because once the Broker goes for a particular Insurer they start to act on the Insurer's behalf and terms of business......most Insurers have signed agreements with Brokers / Insurance Agents

  10. #40
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    holy shit

    don't you fuckers do any work?

    basically, all that I expect is for my vehicle to be returned to a pre accident condition, or replaced with a suitible replacement, it looks as though I will either have my car fixed, which I would prefer, or be presented with a cheque for an undisclsed sum as settlement for a writeoff, (which I am worried will be for less than the value of a replacement fit for purpose, and leave me out of pocket), and some added hassle of rental cars, mucking about, which I will take on the chin as sometimes, shit does happen.
    However, if it turns to shit, I WILL have my car signwritten and park it outside their shop until I am compensated for my loss.

    the car is currently drivable, albeit badly smashed up, I liberated one of the tail lights off my trailer and screwed it to the back corner so I could still use it safely.
    So we still have a car until it actually goes to be repaired or written off.
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  11. #41
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    Yeah all good - although you probably won't get a replacement. You may just get a settlement cheque.
    The policy wording your insurer provided will give you an indication on how they settle claims and what they will pay you. Look for headings such as "What we will pay" and "How to claim" etc etc.

  12. #42
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    wooohoooo



    I just got the quote from the panel shop $3500 to fix, and apparently the current insured sum is $4800, as the repair total is less than 75% of the insured value, they'll probably fix it, cool.

    Just need to hear back from the assesor.

    I get to keep my car, cool

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