Well, the early ones didn't have sufficient heat shielding, so a heated seat was a certainty.Originally Posted by Pwalo
parting of the sensory
Well, the early ones didn't have sufficient heat shielding, so a heated seat was a certainty.
... and that's what I think.
Or summat.
Or maybe not...
Dunno really....
Forum whore
Yup! It's quite true.Indeed.
However (but!), Ducati did copy the single-sided swingarm and the underseat zorsts from Honda's NR, which was also instituted in the VFR.
But (however!) the VFR's SSS was ugly compared to the Ducati's, or Triumph's. And the NR's underseat zorsts weren't as pretty as Ducati's either, nor were the Vtec VFR's.
Thing is though (which I didn't realise until I was watching "Top Gear"), the Japanese aren't good at integrated design, as they concentrate on the details. So when evaluating summat, they look each detail separately, admiring each one on its own, before moving to the next detail and admiring that. So you often end up with a bunch of details which are OK on their own (apart from Honda's SSS and underseat zorsts), but look odd together. Mix enough of these, and voila! (or "viola!" if you prefer) - you get some ugly bastidge like the FireStorm.
Japanese buildings / city scapes / comics all look pretty odd to occidental eyes. At work we do a lot of digital signage stuff (we develop etc) and you want to try watching 9 simultaneous videos. Japanese make pefect sense of it because the look at one at a time. Europeans tend to look at the whole thing then look at the detail.
The fact that Ducati didn't do tech things first has nil bearing on the quality of the 916 design. From a technical point of view it is a flawed unit.
However, as an integrated and appealing design is un surpassed. It is instantly recogniseable and long lasting. It's as iconic as (say) a VW beetle, a coke bottle or a 60's Triumph twin. Just looking at it evokes everything the bike is about and it is something the 999 simply does NOT do.
Integration of design was the hallmark of the great designers, not always the engineers.
Well thats what I reckon...
Paul N
No8 Wire Extraordinaire
Not such a silly suggestion, although for another reason than you probably suspect. Mind you I do believe mostly it is done for style. But having an appendage sticking out in the breeze is a disadvantage.
BUT, what is more of a disadvantage is if the air flowing around the bike is disrupted. If you were to run a bike in a wind tunnel you would see aerodynamic designs where the wind clings to the back of the bike as long as possible.
These same designs can be stuffed up if you then start the bike & rev it like crazy sending a plume of gas, (stand behind a big bore bike to see the effect of how much gas is moved, presumably 1000cc every revolution give or take) worse case pointing upward & beside the bike. This will push the airflow away from the bike causing turbulence.
Putting an endcap on the side mounted muffler to direct the plume to the middle of the rear of the bike should vastly minimise the effect, but in the tailpiece pointing straight back will work nicely too.
Don't you look at my accountant.
He's the only one I've got.
bucket blingster
http://www.motonline.com/img_reposit...1PM_709_or.jpg
http://www.motonline.com/img_reposit...08PM_302_o.jpg
Hmmm, other option looks to be run no muffler at all !!!
As a fashion statement it's a disaster for people who might want to strap some bags on and go places, rather than ride for an hour to the top of a hill and swap BS, then go home to a lovel glass of Chardonnay.
The new FZ6, supposedly an "everybike" would melt synthetic saddlebags.
Stupid if you ask me, but then no did. No one ever does.
The SSS on my RC30 was a work of art, far nicer than that blob of alloy on the 916.
parting of the sensory
True. The single-sided swingarm was developed by Elf-Honda for endurance racing, but has no real use on a street bike apart from looks, as it increases unsprung mass, and flexes more. However, it looks so kewl! Especially when you have a pretty rear wheel and don't hide it with the zorst.
Quite true. Although Honda had a great-looking bike in the NR (as you'd expect for something costing close to $NZ200k), it still isn't as good looking as the 916/996/998. A lot of the features on the NR found their place on road-going bikes: the SSS on the VFRs, the underseat zorsts from 2002 onwards on the VFR and CBR, the indicators in the mirrors on the Blackbird, etc etc., the Ducati has to be one of the prettiest bikes ever made.
Kinda shagged Ducati in that it was a very hard act to follow. The 999 is technically better, but as you say, it's a design that's not as integrated and appealing. One thing you haven't mentioned - the aural appeal of those Termignoni cans and bevel gear whine!
... and that's what I think.
Or summat.
Or maybe not...
Dunno really....
No8 Wire Extraordinaire
Poos beat me to it. Single sided swingarm was a fashion statement too. The teams campaigned to get rid of it of the RVF750s & it took years to do it as Honda pride as they had bought the idea from some French concern (Elf) & wanted to get their $ worth. The twin SW was lighter, stronger & flexed more predictably. You will note they never tried it on their real racebike the NSR500.
Another RC30 & Ducati similarity is they both broke crankcases like crazy when raced.
Don't you look at my accountant.
He's the only one I've got.
OOooooo The nancy boy with the purple bike wants a fight does he? eh? eh?Poos beat me to it. Single sided swingarm was a fashion statement too. The teams campaigned to get rid of it of the RVF750s & it took years to do it as Honda pride as they had bought the idea from some French concern (Elf) & wanted to get their $ worth. The twin SW was lighter, stronger & flexed more predictably. You will note they never tried it on their real racebike the NSR500.
Another RC30 & Ducati similarity is they both broke crankcases like crazy when raced.
I'll have you fella! Fekking rancid bucket racing Hutt trash!! Arrrrr.
No8 Wire Extraordinaire
RIGHT THEN!
Purple bike? Are you calling me a poofta? Oh that's right I do have one of those, I keep forgetting (note it's not in my list of bikes).
I'll just slink away then. . .
Don't you look at my accountant.
He's the only one I've got.
now where's some dirt!
IMO underseat exhausts make alot more sense to have than a normal one.
First point is that if you have a slow 30 or 40kph off you don't damage your $700 yoshi pipe at all, its well protected. This is something that would benefit everyone, including racers. The end can would just about never get damaged.
Secondly the aerodynamics of the bike are alot more ballanced as the bike is more symmetrical.
Thirdly, looks. All bikes with an undertail look so sexy, ala 996, CBR600RR etc. They all look better than the ones with standard exhausts. My opinion though, some other people might think differently.
Think the biggest factor is the first one, just about everyone will be helped by that fact.
Tearing Choppa a new A'Hole
It's allright mate. Us Lower Hutt "trash" types got to stick together.RIGHT THEN!
Purple bike? Are you calling me a poofta? Oh that's right I do have one of those, I keep forgetting (note it's not in my list of bikes).
I'll just slink away then. . .
Glad I'm not riding a Ducrapi *replica*.......
Vote David Bain for MNZ president
The new CBR600RR looks like a baboon's rectum from behind.
Aerodymanics (it's deliberate!) is all moot on the road anyway, as even on cars it doesn't really pay a part until 120km/hr or so. It can help with fuel efficiency by reducing the amount of power required to maintain 100km/hr, but I loathe those nasty little hybrid cars with a passion, largely because they look like (and are usually painted a relevant colour) a wedge of goat cheese. Bikes are hideously inefficient aerodynamically anyway, largely because the FIM legislated against exploiting aerodynamic development to keep costs and speeds down. The dustbin fairings in the 50s were a bit dodgey in crosswinds, so they got banned. Amazing top speeds from 500cc twins and singles though. In the late 80's, early 90s the 250GP bikes in particular started to lengthen and raise the rear seat unit fairing to reduce the size of the wall of air they were towing, but this got stomped on pretty quickly by the FIM.
Therefore sportbikes continue to follow an aerodynamically inefficient pattern so that all us sport bike fashion victims can buy something what looks like race bike, dunnit? eh?eh? Cruisers are similarly inefficient, sometimes made much worse by the dietary habits of the "Bubba" riding the cruiser, and the upright cruciform riding position.
Glad I'm not riding a heap of rotting 80s crap.
now where's some dirt!
The 600 and 1000 sportsbikes these days are primarily made so that they will be competitive on the race track (supersport and superbikes). At speeds of over 200 i reckon the aerodynamics would be a factor.
Forum whore
An underseat exhaust is like and ear ring in the right ear lobe - a secret sign that you are a homosexual,motorcycle manufactorers have finaly recognised this and built a motorcycle for the homosexual segment of the market.I kinda like being able to spot a queer a mile away...
In and out of jobs, running free
Waging war with society
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