Spying? What spying?

[Hitcher]

I am incredibly annoyed about the media coverage of the so-called “infiltration” by Solid Energy of a group of activists hell-bent on publicity for their “cause” and disruption at any cost.

The media seems to bracket greenies in the same warm fuzzy category as mothers, apple pies, bunny rabbits and Christmas. Peace on earth, goodwill to people. If only that were true.

Greenpeace has done a great job of promoting itself, whatever itself is, around a whole bunch of environmental causes that it has used for photo
opportunities. Every “celebrity” in Christendom appears to be latched onto adopting African orphans or pleading for land rights for gay whales. The media soaks it all up unquestioningly and the “truth” unfortunately is the victim.

Greenpeace annoys me, particularly by the way it canvasses for “members” but provides “members” with no means of contributing to that “organisation’s” agenda for action. One doesn’t “join” Greenpeace. One makes a donation. Big difference. Greenpeace just wants their money.

I expect accountability from organisations of which I am a member. Organisations like Greenpeace, through their actions, show that they are accountable to nobody other than a handful of rabble-rousers who have managed to get themselves onto an environmental gravy train. Consequently they deserve little respect.

Many so-called “lobby groups” have no membership or support whatsoever. They comprise maybe one or two people, a catchy acronym, a word processor and a mailing list. Irritatingly media never ask them about their membership or mandate. A classic example of such one-person “organisations” is SHAC – the State Housing Action Coalition. It comprises one “member”, its president and public spokesperson Peter Hughes, who doesn’t even live in a state house. The countless activist “groups” so opposed to the eradication of the painted apple moth from western Auckland were also largely one-person headline seekers. Where’s the Sunday Star Times when there is real scandal to be exposed?

Returning to Solid Energy, this company has been tormented for some time by a group of activist vandals, representative of nobody, that has been responsible for trespass, damage to property and threats to the health and wellbeing of Solid Energy employees. To the annoyance of this group, Solid Energy has set up CCTV and used private investigators to keep an eye on their activities. If they are as altruistic as they claim, why are these criminals afraid of their activities being subjected to scrutiny? What do they wish to keep hidden from public view? They demand high levels of accountability from the organisations they love to vilify yet collapse in a screaming heap if hard questions are asked of them.

Unlike the wailing environmentalists, Solid Energy has at all times operated within the law. One may disagree with the laws, but one should remind oneself that one lives in a democracy and can exert influence to change these, should one wish.

“Infiltration” of organisations hell-bent on mischief is and should remain a legitimate intelligence-gathering measure.

[vifferman]

I didn't bother finding out the facts of this, but just hearing the headline about Solid Energy admitting paying someone to "spy" on the Greenies, I thought,"So pharking what?!?" I can't see anything wrong with that at all; nothing illegal or immoral - since when was observation either of those things?

[Swoop]

The student was paid $100-pw for telling them what? "Four people showed up at the meeting last night and nobody brought beer!".

A storm in a teacup.

[Indiana_Jones]

I see no problem with them spying on the fuckers.

They make threats and damage property.

Sure, when those hippies do it, it's ok, the media go "oh look at those poor people fighting the good fight"

But as soon as the companies fight back "OH those evil oppressive people!"

Fucking hippies

-Indy

[Steam]

So, would it be okay for a political party to do the same?
"Labour tails John Key's family, friends, with team of investigators."

How about a company putting a technician into another company's R&D department to send intelligence back on their gadgets?

During a time of war, spies are executed. How is spying in peacetime fundamentally different?

Given that both National, Labour, and the Greens have all come out saying the spying on behalf of Solid Energy is inappropriate, do you think you are perhaps out of touch with things?

How would YOU feel if someone reported on your conversations, perhaps a colleague who reported your opinions to the boss, or was collecting information for a corporate takeover...

It may not be illegal but it's sure as hell a shitty thing to do. It's immoral, not illegal.

[peasea]

Fuck Greenpeace, they are a bunch of statistic-manipulating wankers.

[limbimtimwim]

Greenpeace annoys me, particularly by the way it canvasses for “members” but provides “members” with no means of contributing to that “organisation’s” agenda for action. One doesn’t “join” Greenpeace. One makes a donation. Big difference. Greenpeace just wants their money.

Next time you get 'street talked' by a greenpeace person (Happens to me all the time) just say "Oh, they are as bad as the other big companies" and watch the 'street talker' implode in confusion.

[Indiana_Jones]

So, would it be okay for a political party to do the same?
"Labour tails John Key's family, friends, with team of investigators."

How about a company putting a technician into another company's R&D department to send intelligence back on their gadgets?

During a time of war, spies are executed. How is spying in peacetime fundamentally different?

Given that both National, Labour, and the Greens have all come out saying the spying on behalf of Solid Energy is inappropriate, do you think you are perhaps out of touch with things?

Everyone uses spies.

Russia and the US still spy on each other, any nation with any sense would be watching what the other side is doing

Same with companies, you can be all goody goody and not spy, but fuck it, the other guy is gonna be spying on you lol

-Indy

[BigG]

Bring on Nuclear Power Stations its clean but not so Green ( Solid Energy with a core)

[Big Dave]

Everyone uses spies.

Russia and the US still spy on each other, any nation with any sense would be watching what the other side is doing

Same with companies, you can be all goody goody and not spy, but fuck it, the other guy is gonna be spying on you lol

-Indy

I'm watching you buddy.

[Indiana_Jones]

I'm watching you buddy.

I'm watching you..........with these hungry eyes!

-Indy

[Big Dave]

watching me run away now

[oldrider]

The so called student is a bullshitter of the first kind and helped to orchestrate this rubbish to further their own cause!

I listened to an in depth radio interview and he was just full of it, they must think we (the general public) are bloody idiots!

Then again............maybe in the main they are right!..........Look at our elected leaders! John.

[Blackbird]

Protecting democracy sometimes calls for undemocratic, if not illegal measures. There is no simple answer to what is over the boundary and what is not. I do however have a problem with both the state and other organisations (like militant unionists in the 70's and early 80's) grossly exceeding the norms of behaviour. I don't believe that the norm was exceeded in this instance. It's a complicated old world.

[James Deuce]

So, would it be okay for a political party to do the same?
"Labour tails John Key's family, friends, with team of investigators."

How about a company putting a technician into another company's R&D department to send intelligence back on their gadgets?

During a time of war, spies are executed. How is spying in peacetime fundamentally different?

Given that both National, Labour, and the Greens have all come out saying the spying on behalf of Solid Energy is inappropriate, do you think you are perhaps out of touch with things?

How would YOU feel if someone reported on your conversations, perhaps a colleague who reported your opinions to the boss, or was collecting information for a corporate takeover...

It may not be illegal but it's sure as hell a shitty thing to do. It's immoral, not illegal.

You've missed the point.

If I owned or managed a company that regularly came under threat of harm to people and property I would do what I could to protect those people and that property. If that meant taking the same steps Solid Energy has I would. If you don't show commitment to your employees your company is in big trouble. It is entirely moral and ethical from the perspective of protecting people's lives.

These protesters are operating under the premise that the paradigm of violent protest is still a viable one in a world that is geared to a swift and brutal response to "terrorism". Let's not return to the days of blowing up elderly cleaners to make a point.