SV650 race mods

[Tim 39]

I reckon the bare minimum to do is the forks. The stock set up is good for conservative riding on smooth pavement. We had the emulators/damper rod mod/springs/oil done to Annie's K5, and it transformed the reasonably budget stock setup to a great performing set of forks. Very worthwhile, even for a road bike

When I had an NSR 250 I put emulators etc in it and it made a huge difference, to my knowledge these work really well in SV's. Cheapest improvement you'll make to the suspension, theyre around about $300 I think for the set

[Pussy]

When I had an NSR 250 I put emulators etc in it and it made a huge difference, to my knowledge these work really well in SV's. Cheapest improvement you'll make to the suspension, theyre around about $300 I think for the set

Yep, Robert set the preload on the emulators to suit what Annie wanted, and chose the correct spring rate for her. On the odd occasion that I got permission to ride the SV, I found even with my extra bulk (gravitationally challenged!) that the damping felt great, feedback from the front very precise, and generally very confidence inspiring. It never felt out of sorts after the mods. Brian Bernard took Annie's K1 for several quick circuits of Manfeild in 2004, and reckoned it felt great.

[evol mas]

hi i wish my shock was worth 3 grand lol it was $1400 from rt i recently brought a k7sv650 nd so far hav spent thousands on it but another idea is race tech ?? i sent my forks 2 them and they did the internals for me with ebitch components because aparently they have a beter spring. nothing against robert taylor (sure he may be the shock guru and all) bt i spent half an hour waitig for him to c to me at the last round ov vic club nd then he told me he would come see me later !! wich never happened !!now when i spend $1400 on a shock i wuld expect a littel after sales service!!

[GSVR]

hi i wish my shock was worth 3 grand lol it was $1400 from rt i recently brought a k7sv650 nd so far hav spent thousands on it but another idea is race tech ?? i sent my forks 2 them and they did the internals for me with ebitch components because aparently they have a beter spring. nothing against robert taylor (sure he may be the shock guru and all) bt i spent half an hour waiting for him to c to me at the last round ov vic club nd then he told me he would come see me later !! wich never happened !!now when i spend $1400 on a shock i wuld expect a littel after sales service!!

Cool thanks for correcting that. Even building a competive ProTwin class bike is a big investment. When I heard 3k I sort of thought yeah right but then thought maybe that could have included the cost of the front fork work as well and someone had got it wrong.

Introducing a control tyre might have benefits for this class as well otherwise there will be those with spare rims with wets (more expense) and those without.

All the best with your racing Sam. Would be good to see this class really take off.

[Robert Taylor]

I registered for this forum solely as a means to assist in tidying up any loose ends that Shaun Harris had ongoing before his unfortunate accident. I didnt expect to have to expend valuable time by replying to a criticism that is a little less than well informed, especially as the demeanour was a little akin to judge, jury and executioner. ( I thank a South Island customer for informing me so that I have the chance to defend myself )

I would like to make the following points, in random order;

1) Mr Love did indeed approach me soon after I arrived at Taupo, whilst I was setting up. I explained that I would have a look at his bike a little later, typically my day was going to be very busy with everyone ''in my face'' all at once. Considerably later than his expectation I did go to try and find Mr Love but failed to do so. Maybe I didnt look hard enough and for that I sincerely apologise.

2) But conversely I did note that Mr Love has a set of legs and a voice. It would have been a simple matter for him to come over to remind me. This would have saved the trouble he went to bagging me online, moreover in semi text language which I hate with a vengeance. And the neccessity of my reply.

3) There is only one of me that has taken road race suspension tuning to a much higher overall level in NZ. In fact ''out of the dark ages''. I dont evidence highly skilled road race suspension technicians to hand that will get involved in often very intense race weekends for no remuneration, plus net loss in incurring travel costs, accomodation and incidentals. In the current June issue of Kiwi Rider magazine I wrote a lenghty article on road racing. Within that article I elaborated about there not being armies of well remunerated supension technicians on hand at race meetings in NZ. Whilst many people attend for the love of the sport there are inevitably cold hard commercial cost realities in providing levels of service.

4) Relevant to point 3 above you would pay in excess of $1400 for that shock in Europe. In some of the Scandinavian countries VAT ( GST ) is 25%.And when you got to the track you would only be able to readily access service if you had a pre-paid service contract, over and above the cost of the supension units. If a ''casual customer'' you would pay up front for any service, setting parts, alternate springs etc. But the same service would be placed in queue only after the techs had first fulfilled their service contract obligations.

Contrary to what a number of people may think the dealer margin on these products is very very slender, so is my distributor margin which realistically doesnt truly allow for extra time spent in optimisation for varying tracks / conditions, spring exchange etc.

We all want the same products and bling available to the first world European countries and also want the ''trimmings'' that go with it. But in NZ being a high tax, low wage economy there is a shortage of expendable income. For that reason we are either unable or unwilling to pay for the extras or to allow for an infrastructure that allows ''more feet on the ground''.

4) Subsequently Mr Loves dealer sent me a fax requesting an alternate spring. I promptly despatched 2 options including a pre addressed / pre paid courier bag for the return springs, cutting into my margin but saving the dealer this expense. Two springs were subsequently returned inclusive of the original. It was a little beaten up with paint knocked off, rather prematurely I thought for its age. This sort of thing ''goes with the territory'' but it amazes me how little care many people take to look after things that cost money.

5) The forks went to a very good suspension tech in Auckland who is not actually a Race Tech Dealer. But a Race Tech emulator set was fitted, I knew about this as the tech rang me so I could rattle off all the settings that I have laboriously worked out ( no charge for intellectual property ). Eibach springs ( note the spelling ) are indeed very good but will provide no functional difference to the Traxxion Dynamics springs that I have predominantly used in the past on SV's. I have now largely been using a series of Ohlins Superbike fork springs. These have an extra process whereby they are very highly polished. This reduces friction substanially because springs always rub against the internal walls of the fork sliders, in doing so rubbing off tiny shards of metal, contaminating the oil and damping control mechanisms. Of course you pay a little more for such springs but you only get what you pay for. In a trade like mine it is a choice between doing a cheap, very average job or doing it to a very high standard of quality, performance and longevity.

6) Further to my diatribe above there is one piece of information I did not disclose, we process the damper rods a little differently to the standard Race Tech suggested method. If you do it their way you actually end up with a not inconsiderable amount of the fork travel where the damping is ''dead''. It took a while to work this out and when you expend time in doing so you dont just give away the info.

Nothing is ever what it seems in this world, so much is assumed and all too often people will ''load and fire'' because they are not in full control of the facts, have been misled or have trusted the ''advice'' of others with only enough knowledge to be dangerous.

Demonstrably. I have provided Mr Love with more service than he realises, albeit through slightly indirect channels. As I now understand it the spring rate is sorted and I will follow through with him at Manfield this weekend. I sincerely thank Mr Love for re-igniting my thoughts on a very real problem that exists within this sport.

Road race suspension tuning is a very exacting and demanding science. That has been recognised by MNZ and to that end it was ''semi addressed'' by recently running an all too brief suspension set up module at an MNZ training day in the South Island. Attempts to run one in the North Island failed due to too few subscribers!!!! The course entry fee of $90 or so existed only to cover costs. Go figure......

I pointed out in my recent Kiwi Rider magazine article that it is important for riders to understand suspension set up as much as possible, to keep learning same and that the very top riders are also those who have made effort to do so. It is just not good enough to choose to remain almost totally ignorant of set-up and ask a ( skilled and experienced ) suspension technician to set up the bike. If there is one to hand.....

So in conclusion I invite thoughts of the concept of me being available to do set up schools for road race set up, affiliated with KiwiBiker.......I am happy to lead the proverbial horse to water, as long as the water is also drunk.

[Clivoris]

So in conclusion I invite thoughts of the concept of me being available to do set up schools for road race set up, affiliated with KiwiBiker.......I am happy to lead the proverbial horse to water, as long as the water is also drunk.

Welcome to the forum Dr Taylor. I would certainly be up for paying for some learning about suspension. My only anxiety being that whenever I have tried to read about it in magazines and books, my brain gets jammed in gear. I have a brain that manages most things well, apart from music theory and now, it appears, suspension theory. Would you be able to cater for suspension gimps like myself?

[johnsv650]

robert,
totally understand where your coming from, your the hardest working guy on race days at the nationals and seemingly club days, and yes rightly you spend time with people who promote your product.....and win....
maybe some owners might prefer to "contract" to get your services, as they understand you can get the power to the road.......some spend many dollars on motors and need help getting the power done effectly.
i'm sending you my rods for a pro twin, and i appreciate your help.

[k14]

So in conclusion I invite thoughts of the concept of me being available to do set up schools for road race set up, affiliated with KiwiBiker.......I am happy to lead the proverbial horse to water, as long as the water is also drunk.

I'd be the first to sign up for such a course, $90 is a pittance considering how much you can spend on other "go fast" bits for a bike which can give little gain in comparison. I've seen a suspension setup dvd on the traxxion dynamics website which I am very seriously considering buying. It is the one aspect of riding which is very difficult to learn by yourself without hours and hours of track testing.

Also I very much enjoyed reading your article in the kiwirider magazine, very informative and well thought out. How much is one of those new ohlins shocks for my RS125?? Hehe

[evol mas]

sory robert if i was a bit harsh in that text above but i have been riddled with problems building this bike with people not doing there job correctly not saying that you didnt but when i recived that shock i expected it to be correct for my rider weight of 60kgs straight away, wich i was later informed it was a 75 kg spring (correct me if i am wrong),perhaps you were wrongly informed of this. but when seting the shock up that morning at the track found that it only had 4mm of static with the preload wound rite offsag when acording to the ohlins manuel is suposed to be 10 -15mm ?? so i paniced and was dissapointed when you were bizy but hopfuly we have it sorted now thanks to those other springs you sent me i hope this will not tarnish future trading
regards sam

[GSVR]

sory robert if i was a bit harsh in that text above but i have been riddled with problems building this bike with people not doing there job correctly not saying that you didnt but when i recived that shock i expected it to be correct for my rider weight of 60kgs straight away, wich i was later informed it was a 75 kg spring (correct me if i am wrong),perhaps you were wrongly informed of this. but when seting the shock up that morning at the track found that it only had 4mm of static with the preload wound rite offsag when acording to the ohlins manuel is suposed to be 10 -15mm ?? so i paniced and was dissapointed when you were bizy but hopfuly we have it sorted now thanks to those other springs you sent me i hope this will not tarnish future trading
regards sam

Figures I have for static sag without rider is between 0 and 10mm and with rider on bike between 20-25mm. Both Shaun and Robert have set up alot of these bikes now so should have a pretty good idea what works. How much do you weigh suited up?
Dissapointed not to see you at Manfield today. Hows the toncils (sp)?

[evol mas]

well my tonsiles wont be bothering me any more. iv just come off all the drugs so should be fit for the next round at manfeild. the ohlins manuel i recived with the shoch states 10 to 15 mm static sag so not sure there ??
and it felt way to stiff on the few breif laps i rode before it kicked me off as i fell victom to taupo. ps are you entering as a pro twins bike or staying f3 ?

[GSVR]

well my tonsiles wont be bothering me any more. iv just come off all the drugs so should be fit for the next round at manfeild. the ohlins manuel i recived with the shoch states 10 to 15 mm static sag so not sure there ??
and it felt way to stiff on the few breif laps i rode before it kicked me off as i fell victom to taupo. ps are you entering as a pro twins bike or staying f3 ?

I sold my SV at the Suzuki trackday last week but if I get another I will run ProTwin spec (if I can figure out what the rules actually are). Building a Nationals winning F3 bike is alot of money and hard work.

Its a pity Shauns not online like he usually is as he would tell you what setup he would use for your weight. Don't think anythings changed on the bikes suspension since 2003.

[Possum41]

I sold my SV at the Suzuki trackday last week but if I get another I will run ProTwin spec (if I can figure out what the rules actually are). Building a Nationals winning F3 bike is alot of money and hard work.

The new rules are on the MNZ website Garry for the Pro Twins class, under Proposed New Rules/Pro Twins.

I hope you do get another bike and come back racing, just let me know and i'll sort you out with a fast HYOSUNG!!!!!!!

[Robert Taylor]

sory robert if i was a bit harsh in that text above but i have been riddled with problems building this bike with people not doing there job correctly not saying that you didnt but when i recived that shock i expected it to be correct for my rider weight of 60kgs straight away, wich i was later informed it was a 75 kg spring (correct me if i am wrong),perhaps you were wrongly informed of this. but when seting the shock up that morning at the track found that it only had 4mm of static with the preload wound rite offsag when acording to the ohlins manuel is suposed to be 10 -15mm ?? so i paniced and was dissapointed when you were bizy but hopfuly we have it sorted now thanks to those other springs you sent me i hope this will not tarnish future trading
regards sam

No worries whatsoever, sometimes I bark but dont bite. I did look for you at Manfield on Saturday but now know why you didnt make it. Garry H is half right with the sag setting suggestions. On that particular bike I like to see 8 -10mm static sag. ( The Ohlins recommendation is for road use ) During the summer months when there is much more track temperature and grip set it to 25mm rider sag, closer to 20mm will work if you open the throttle earlier and leave it on longer! BUT, at this time of the year there is no track temperature and no grip to be had. Its all about just the right amount of weight transfer to assist off corner grip, when there is little grip to be had ( either through cold temps, rain, greasy track ) you cannot open the throttle as soon. So there is less engine torque to assist the bike to squat / weight transfer a suitable amount.....and therefore keep the tyre ''biting'' into the track surface. That means you have to run a softer setting to get it to squat. I would suggest closer to 30mm at this time of year.

Once again I thank you for reminding me about the very real need to run set up schools and I am currently in conversation with several people about it.

And hey, if you have any immediate questions please ( anybody ) pick up the phone or e-mail me, robert@northwest.co.nz That way you will get a much faster response. While not deriding the concept of forums, there is a neccessity that I give quick, clear and concise answers so I can carry on with the mountain of work always ahead of me! This also alleviates the danger of beleiving less than accurate information that is posted.

[Reckless]

Hey Robert,
You probaly don't remeber me from your karting days. Rick, 125's, My mate Geoff Downs, and I bought a new 250 yamaha off you.

I see your still giving away your time, money (for great fallen racer) and advice freely. Bling posted for you!!