Affordable lap timers

[notme]

Well.

Referring to:

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...ight=lap+timer
and
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...ight=lap+timer

It seems that there is a market for an affordable lap timer - so I've designed one.

At this stage is it a prototype, hence the rough finish in the photos. It is at what we call a "proof of concept" stage, which means that the basic idea has been proven, the concept will work, and now just the details need to be sorted out. The final design will look very similar.

What I have done is design with end cost as the biggest factor, so the cases are off the shelf items rather than a custom mould, I am printing paper labels rather than getting polycarb ones made, and many other similar design decisions. The upshot of this is that the units don't look like one of the professional products out there, but they will work just the same.

The system is a transmitter unit that goes trackside, and a receiver unit that goes on the bike.

FEATURES:
- Works on bikes, cars, people that can run real quick like, whatever.
- Uses IR beam for timing
- LCD display to set up the unit and read times
- Accurate to 1/10th second
- Supports multiple beams (i.e. sector/split timing)
- Stores lap times for analysis at the end of the session
- Cheap!


So, the questions I need answered from you lot are:

Would you be prepared to pay around $200 for this system? The cheapest equivalent product out there that I could find is $400.

The $200 covers a transmitter, a receiver, instruction manual, and a lollipop.
Additional transmitters would be $50. Note that if a group own these things, then each person can use thier own receiver and all use one transmitter, or place the transmitters around the track for split timing.

What functions/features do you want?
There are a lot of features I can think of, but what is useful for racers? Obviously lap and split times, and there will be a quick way to show fastest time of the session....The unit uses the idea of a “session” as being a series of laps. You can show the fastest lap of a session, name a session, delete a session to free some storage space, etc. What else?

To date I have only spent my time and about $100 in prototyping costs, so if nothing further comes of this then I'm not worried, but if it progresses along I will need some sort of deposit or somehting from a reasonable number of people to justify the outlay on building some. I'm thinking something like 10 units guaranteed to sell should be enough.

The photo shows the transmitter (front) and the receiver (back).

So who's interested?

[Sketchy_Racer]

For $200, they will sell. Really good.

And if you talk real nicely to places like Vic club, and Pacific club, you might find they could be fairly interested in getting a few.

If you wanna test one, and it works, i'll buy one

[Sketchy_Racer]

Oh, how many transmitters could you run off 1 reciever?

Or is it as many as you like?

[notme]

Oh, how many transmitters could you run off 1 reciever?

Or is it as many as you like?

As many as you like......well ok within reason. Easily 25 on a short track like the Taupo short version.

If you wanna test one, and it works, i'll buy one

Testing will be starting soon....the units work as in i have tried them up and down the street sorta thing, so the testing on the track by some racers is to show up things like usability, features etc.

After that (a week or 2 depending on lots of things) I will make the first lot, IF I have enough people with a cold hard cash deposit.

[notme]

Something I should have mentioned - this system will NOT be compatible with any existing systems. Doing this would mean they will cost more.

[xwhatsit]

How's it logging the data? If you're using a small microprocessor, like an AVR or PIC or summat, there's plenty of easy ways (cheap, too) to dump the data to a CompactFlash card or the like. This could be plenty helpful -- imagine loading that data back into Excel or whatever, doing calculations on average speeds and times and graphs and all that good stuff.

Of course, you don't really want the project to bloat out too much. It's so easy to get `featuritis', especially from every man and his dog telling you what he would like. Hell, I don't even do trackdays.

[Sketchy_Racer]

Testing will be starting soon....the units work as in i have tried them up and down the street sorta thing, so the testing on the track by some racers is to show up things like usability, features etc.

After that (a week or 2 depending on lots of things) I will make the first lot, IF I have enough people with a cold hard cash deposit.

Well if you get more people, im in.

1 reciever and 2 transmitters...

[notme]

How's it logging the data? If you're using a small microprocessor, like an AVR or PIC or summat, there's plenty of easy ways (cheap, too) to dump the data to a CompactFlash card or the like. This could be plenty helpful -- imagine loading that data back into Excel or whatever, doing calculations on average speeds and times and graphs and all that good stuff.

Of course, you don't really want the project to bloat out too much. It's so easy to get `featuritis', especially from every man and his dog telling you what he would like. Hell, I don't even do trackdays.

But the feedback is appreciated

Data logging - it has been cut from the feature list for cost reasons.....all it does is mean you don't need to manually enter the laps into a spreadsheet, so it makes that easier rather than making it not possible.

There's nothing to say that there couldn't be a PRO version or similar that has all that, but then again the idea is that it's a CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP unit. If you spent twice the $$$ you could get an entry level mass produced unit, and I know that cost of the ones around the $600 mark all have datalogging.

The units use Atmel AVR processors and will retain say 99 laps in memory, with the idea at this point being that you name each session (as session is a group of laps) then when you get home you can analyse the sessions - e.g. I would name the sessions "bridgestones" and "metzlers" and "wet track" and so on, then analyse the lap times from each session.

[Korea]

Sounds excellent.
But what I'm wondering is Transmitters; will they all run on the same frequency/whatever or is each one 'unique'?
For example, if I set one up at Manfeild and someone else has one, will it go off twice each lap?

Anyways, sounds like a great business idea

[notme]

Sounds excellent.
But what I'm wondering is Transmitters; will they all run on the same frequency/whatever or is each one 'unique'?
For example, if I set one up at Manfeild and someone else has one, will it go off twice each lap?

Anyways, sounds like a great business idea

At this stage (again, cost reasons) I am thinking that they will all be the same, so yes, if someone else has one you will get 2 triggers per lap.

The low cost to you solution is that if someone else has one at the track, there's no need to get your transmitter out at all! Just use thiers.

Another thing you can do is use both transmitters, and tell your receiver (via the menus) that there are 2 tx's on this track, and it will start split timing. Obviously you need to liase with whoever has the other unit and get them to do the same or they will be the one that gets strange results.

However, if there was demand or you guys tell me that the solution above is impractical after the testing is done, it is possible to make the transmitters have say 10 different codes, so that you can tell your receiver that you are using say code 1, but again this requires liaising with other guys to see what codes are in use already. (unless you just pick a coding and go round the track and see how many triggers you get.....)

I think that at the end of the day, the chances of several people being at the same track on the same day and not being able to sort it out are fairly slim...but the futureproofing is there if it becomes a requirment.

Also note that the worst case you will have is that you unintentionally get split timing, and you have to add every 2 consecutive lap times together to get the real time.....the timing isn't lost or anything!

[Coyote]

I'm hemidemisemi interested. Would be good for dirt riding and such. Just I wouldn't be able to give you a hard cash deposit anytime soon

[onearmedbandit]

Yup, I'd be keen.

[Sketchy_Racer]

How many people do you need before you'll do a first 'batch' as such?

[xwhatsit]

But the feedback is appreciated

Data logging - it has been cut from the feature list for cost reasons.....all it does is mean you don't need to manually enter the laps into a spreadsheet, so it makes that easier rather than making it not possible.

There's nothing to say that there couldn't be a PRO version or similar that has all that, but then again the idea is that it's a CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP unit. If you spent twice the $$$ you could get an entry level mass produced unit, and I know that cost of the ones around the $600 mark all have datalogging.

The units use Atmel AVR processors and will retain say 99 laps in memory, with the idea at this point being that you name each session (as session is a group of laps) then when you get home you can analyse the sessions - e.g. I would name the sessions "bridgestones" and "metzlers" and "wet track" and so on, then analyse the lap times from each session.

Cool. No, that's smart. Not only is there the physical hardware, but even more stuff to inevitably debug in software. That's always the hard part -- deciding what features are absolutely necessary and sticking by them. Target market probably isn't going to want to be fiddling around with cables and text files and computer programs anyway.

I know if I had one, I'd end up opening it up and plugging it into my JTAG ICE to get the data, but I'm a geek, lol.

What's the story with the IR? I take it you need direct line of sight? At that speed, how much time have you got to send the signal -- if you want 10 codes, say, is there enough accuracy with IR to use DPSK or something? How do you encode stuff onto an IR medium?

[Racey Rider]

I'm in.

Can we read the screen while on the bike? ie. see what we did that last lap?

My Birthdays coming up. One of these has got to be better than a pair of socks! $100 depoist and the balance before delivery?

Racey