50 survival tips - Read 'em now!

[STEPHASAUR]

Well that was certainly a slightly disconcerting thread.

Not in the sense that anybody who thinks of taking to two wheels hasn't thought of those hazards, just more to actually read it, and REALLY think about everyone's experiences/ advice.
Despite not hopping on a motorbike yet, I have had my fair share of near misses/ asshole drivers on a pushbike. and It's bloody terrifying.

Have linked this thread to a mate of mine, who is a learner rider of only a few weeks, who decided to try to take a blind corner quick during a test ride after servicing his bike. Took the corner FAR too wide, resulting in him riding on the opposite lane, and nearly being wiped out by an oncoming car (thankfully the driver saw and swerved out of the way)
After confronting him about it all he said was "nah it's ok, nothing happened and I was just testing how wide I can lean"

Sorry alex-san. But seeing you in the rear view at that moment wasn't something I want to see again.

and yes, I may have taken the corner quick, which may have tempted him to try the same. Lesson to learn on both ends for sure.

[Gremlin]

Have linked this thread to a mate of mine, who is a learner rider of only a few weeks, who decided to try to take a blind corner quick during a test ride after servicing his bike. Took the corner FAR too wide, resulting in him riding on the opposite lane, and nearly being wiped out by an oncoming car (thankfully the driver saw and swerved out of the way)
After confronting him about it all he said was "nah it's ok, nothing happened and I was just testing how wide I can lean"

Sorry alex-san. But seeing you in the rear view at that moment wasn't something I want to see again.

Put that into perspective for him. The learner that bought my first bike was out learning in the Drury area, ran wide on a left hander, 4WD coming the other way... dead. I dropped off the bike on 20th Dec, he was dead on the 5th Jan. No idiot, always wanted to learn to ride a bike (in his 30s) but made a mistake at the wrong time.

That's how easily it all ends...

[Bass]

Been here for years and this is the first time I've read this thread right through.
Some sage advice for sure but one thing not mentioned is that cars can stop faster than bikes, so watch your following distance. The only post I saw that mentioned it said quite the reverse.

From 100 kph, a Porsche 911 can stop in about half the distance that an R1 can. Don't believe me? Google it!

With ABS brakes, any little old lady can pull up her Honda Accord in less distance than just about any bike.

Again, watch your following distance.

[Moise]

Been here for years and this is the first time I've read this thread right through.
Some sage advice for sure but one thing not mentioned is that cars can stop faster than bikes, so watch your following distance. The only post I saw that mentioned it said quite the reverse.

From 100 kph, a Porsche 911 can stop in about half the distance that an R1 can. Don't believe me? Google it!

With ABS brakes, any little old lady can pull up her Honda Accord in less distance than just about any bike.

Again, watch your following distance.

Can you post the link?

Bikes and cars on street tyres should both manage a little over 1g under ideal conditions. A 911 with sticky tyres going fast enough to generate downforce would do better, but your average Accord would not stop as well as a modern bike.

I usually leave a decent gap to the car in front in case someone following can't stop as hard as me!

[Bass]

Can you post the link?

Bikes and cars on street tyres should both manage a little over 1g under ideal conditions. A 911 with sticky tyres going fast enough to generate downforce would do better, but your average Accord would not stop as well as a modern bike.

!

I went digging and sorry but I can't find the link of the R1 up against the Porsche.

In any case, you are essentially correct. However it's a safety thread and I was generalising which is always dangerous. If I was to be truly accurate, I should have said that high performance cars can significantly outbrake high performance bikes. For everyday machinery it is less clear cut.
I found a table comparing several cars and bikes, but I'm damned if I can figure out how to post it. As you suspected, the results are mixed with as much variation among bike types as among car types. The 2 sets of numbers (around 1G) are intermixed throughout and that alone is worth noting.
Some SUV's are better than some Harleys (and BMWs) and a Lotus Exige trumps a Duc 999 (which is one of the better performers). The results are varied in between.

Further ABS makes a real difference - not so much to the ultimate capability of the machine but to what the average rider will do with confidence.
Grannie in her Accord or similar has had ABS for some time now. All she has to do is give it death and the ABS takes care of the rest. She has close to maximum possible braking effort under all conditions.

ABS on bikes is becoming more common but is still not universal and so it is a brave or foolish rider without ABS, especially one who is new to riding, who treats their brakes like Grannie can with impunity in her Accord. This is at the heart of what I was trying to say and I stand by it. I maintain that in everyday conditions cars tend to stop faster than bikes, but yes I grant that it is not always true.

Just google it. There is a wealth of information on the net and you will soon see what I mean.

Lastly, an example.
My recent motorcycling experience is not huge - about 10 years, 6 bikes and only about 250,000 km. Two of those bikes had ABS, 4 didn't. The gruntiest brakes were on a Sprint ST (non ABS) when it was new. I warped the rotors on Pukekohe and the replacements were not the same.
On one occasion (not on the track), I managed to stop its front wheel turning while at some speed. It was only for a few feet and thankfully I had the presence of mind to reverse the trend and no harm resulted. Lesson learned.
My point is of course that it takes considerable skill to get the best out of non ABS brakes, and total presence of mind to try.

[Bass]

Does this work?

[MarkH]

Does this work?

Not for what you claimed:

From 100 kph, a Porsche 911 can stop in about half the distance that an R1 can. Don't believe me? Google it!

With ABS brakes, any little old lady can pull up her Honda Accord in less distance than just about any bike.

It looks to me like the stopping distances are pretty similar between bikes and cars despite bikes being so much lighter.
Which leads me to suggest this for a survival tip:
DON'T go assuming that you can brake faster than a car you are following, DO leave enough gap to allow for your reaction time.
This would apply even if your bike has ABS.

[Bass]

Not for what you claimed:



.

True.
It was a while ago and my memory is crap. I am certain the comparison was Porsche vs R1 and that the Porsche needed about half the distance of the bike to stop, but it may have been from 200 kph whence the car's downforce plays a much bigger role. Yes, I deliberately used the most extreme example that I knew of and it surprised me when I read it.
However you make my point admirably about following distance.

As an aside, while doing the digging for this spiel, I found a comparison of bikes, stopping distance ABS vs non-ABS.

I thought there would not be much in it under controlled circumstances with everyone focussed on what they were doing. The difference was about 10% which was more than I expected. That emphasised what I was saying about the skill necessary to get the best out of non-ABS brakes. However it said nothing about the experience of the test riders which detracts from it a bit I guess.

I also looked up the braking distance for the Accord. A 2013 model took 115 ft from 60 mph which puts it in with a ZX10/ CBR 1000

[nzspokes]

I read an English survey once that said people who have ABS have a lot of crashes because they have the false beiief it will save them.

I dont believe you.

[MarkH]

I read an English survey once that said people who have ABS have a lot of crashes because they have the false beiief it will save them.

Did you?
Can you prove it?
Without a citation how do we know you aren't talking shit? (surely we don't just take your word on this)
Please post a link so we can check for ourselves what this survey showed.

BTW:
A survey is very unlikely to be where you would uncover such information, so you know - very likely you are talking shit.

[wildriver]

ABS undoubtedly gives a false sense of security to some riders, but the technology apparently reduces fatal accidents by 31% according to an 8 year study. This is a significant reduction.
http://www.iihs.org/frontend/iihs/do...s.ashx?id=2042

[nzspokes]

You better hope it saves you then.

No I dont believe you can read a whole survey.

[swbarnett]

I dont believe you.

Without evidence to the contrary I would. It fits quite nicely with the basic principle of Homeostatis.

I saw a similar quote that said airbags had the same affect.

Whether it actually turns out to be true in either of these cases, though, remains to be seen. I'm only repeating what I read (which wasn't the actual study) and I can't vouch for cassina.

[nzspokes]

Without evidence to the contrary I would. It fits quite nicely with the basic principle of Homeostatis.

I saw a similar quote that said airbags had the same affect.

Whether it actually turns out to be true in either of these cases, though, remains to be seen. I'm only repeating what I read (which wasn't the actual study) and I can't vouch for cassina.

Try reading post 88.

[Moise]

Most drivers have no idea how to use ABS. They don't realise that they can steer the car while they are hard on the brakes.

ABS must be fitted to all motorbikes over 125 cc sold in Europe from 2016.