Criticisms of CYPS?

[Albino]

It's not CYF's role to police/enforce the anti-smacking law.

I hate dumb laws where the law-makers feel compelled to "do something" for political reasons, without thinking through what may or may not be involved from a compliance and enforcement point of view. Like micro-chipping dogs and other recent "dangerous" dog regulations. Just plain dumb laws.

Like removing my right to eat real bread because some pregnant women aren't getting enough folic acid. Hello? Supplements?

umm...cyf's - it may not be their role to police, but it will become it. Smacking after all is child abuse.

[Str8 Jacket]

The Childrens and Young Persons Service (now called Children Youth and Family) exists to investigate and protect children from abuse, abandonment, and wilful neglect. It is staffed by career social workers and liases closely with the police.

Now for some reason many people have a negative view of CYPS. The reasons are easy enough. Occasionally they get it wrong - eg. removing a child who isn't in danger. There are even a few extreme cases where CYPS-approved foster parents have themselves been abusive.

Oh man, I was gonna stay outta this!... I was removed from my parents at the age of 10. I had been through some serious shit that my parents werent reallyg to blame for.
I started flatting at the age of 14 and was seriously fucked up. Im lucky that I had decided to "become someone" and had sorted interviews and had had a haircut and WINZ got me a job interview. I became a trainee chef. Yes my life has changed now but if I had never learned what I learned then I would not be as successful as I am now. Anything worthwhile in like takes hard work. This is not a bad thing.

[janno]

Oh man, I was gonna stay outta this!... I was removed from my parents at the age of 10. I had been through some serious shit that my parents werent reallyg to blame for.
I started flatting at the age of 14 and was seriously fucked up. Im lucky that I had decided to "become someone" and had sorted interviews and had had a haircut and WINZ got me a job interview. I became a trainee chef. Yes my life has changed now but if I had never learned what I learned then I would not be as successful as I am now. Anything worthwhile in like takes hard work. This is not a bad thing.

So was it a good thing that someone interviened or could it have been sorted if you stayed put?

If that's a bit personal, don't worry about answering

[trumpy]

Organisations like CYF are, or should be, the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff, if a "healthy" society is doing its job. Expecting CYF to come running every time there is some instance of abuse or sub-optimal family circumstances is an unrealistic expectation. As is blaming CYF for the carnage they have to deal with on a daily basis and which, in fact, overwhelms their ability to make sense of it.

Changing this epidemic isn't CYF's responsibility. And, in typical Catch 22 mode, their ability to attract and retain competent, dedicated and motivated staff will not be enhanced until prospective social workers believe they can contribute in a manner that actually makes a difference.

This is about "us" not "them".

Exactly.....(insert cliche of nail, hammer etc, etc)

[Str8 Jacket]

So was it a good thing that someone interviened or could it have been sorted if you stayed put?

If that's a bit personal, don't worry about answering

Maybe..........

[NighthawkNZ:Me]

Oh man, I was gonna stay outta this!... I was removed from my parents at the age of 10. I had been through some serious shit that my parents werent reallyg to blame for...

I taken off my parents at 2 months old... I was moved from family home to family home, and a little shit. I was in bording school till I left, where I was totally fracked up when I made the decision to join the Royal NZ Navy which sorted me. However if I did not join the navy (which was my decision) I would either be in jail, or dead.

My point... I don't blame my parents I can't...

I don't blame the various foster parents I had at the time they did the best they could under the circumstances, and I was a little shit...

I blame the CYPS (Back then DSW) they didn't keep me in a home long enough to get the family fell l, I would be in a home for maybe 2 or 3 months then moved, and for a young kid that total fucks you up. Moved school regularly, so I didn't make many friends when I did I was moved again.

My real sister (who I have now only known for about 10 years... was similar case... but well lets say the court cases have been going for 10 years...

[Str8 Jacket]

I taken off my parents at 2 months old... I was moved from family home to family home, and a little shit. I was in bording school till I left, where I was totally fracked up when I made the decision to join the Royal NZ Navy which sorted me. However if I did not join the navy (which was my decision) I would either be in jail, or dead.

My point... I don't blame my parents I can't...

I don't blame the various foster parents I had at the time they did the best they could under the circumstances, and I was a little shit...

I was abused more in foster care than I was with my "real family"

[NighthawkNZ:Me]

I taken off my parents at 2 months old... I was moved from family home to family home, and a little shit. I was in bording school till I left, where I was totally fracked up when I made the decision to join the Royal NZ Navy which sorted me. However if I did not join the navy (which was my decision) I would either be in jail, or dead.

My point... I don't blame my parents I can't...

I don't blame the various foster parents I had at the time they did the best they could under the circumstances, and I was a little shit...

I was abused more in foster care than I was with my "real family"

So was my sister... I have no recolection that I was, so I was lucky... but I was still

[Str8 Jacket]

So was my sister... I have no recolection that I was, so I was lucky... but I was still

\
Ive been lucky in the fact that ive been able to build a relatively "normal" life than most in my situation. Because of this im always available for a chat. PM me if you need to.

[ynot slow]

with this outfit,bullshit is all they say.i know of 2 kids put in car years ago,the marriage broke up and dad wanted all the kids to get money on dpb,this was after the mum had been in another marriage and had had 2 more kids,first hubby said to eldest daughter you tell cops mum abused you and i'll give you a pet,kid was about 11yrs old made up the story.it went to high court and was only thrown out of court when judge and defence pressed prosecution for truth and girl said she had lied for dad.meanwhile cyf(dept prior)uplifted the other 2 kids,if mum was so bad why did they leave her other 2 sons who were younger,they still can't acknowledge that one.for 10 yrs or so mother had no contact with her kids at birthdays xmas etc.even when kids turn 18 and can leave the care they try and blackmail the kids to have no contact with parents.they also placed these kids in the care of father's sister and boyfriend,neglected the kids and used the money from govt for drugs.the kids were petrified of their aunty who would descipline them,the aunty would be with the kids when time came for conferances,so they couldn't say how they were going for fear of the bash.the general concensus was they were afraid of mum,even when on speaker calls from cyfs offices if aunty was there they'd keep quiet,if aunty not there they would chat happily to the mother,not one sign of terror in voices.even phone calls were monitored to daughter as son was able to make up his mind about his mum,he enjoys her contact and hates his dad for what he did to him.meanwhile aunties boyfriend went to court for sexual violation on the daughter when she was 15,she may never have kids because of that,boyfriend and aunty now have non contact orders against them on the niece,silly thing was not once was mother ever told of any court hearings re visitation,change of care giver whilst trial was on.not once did cyfs do drugs test on either aunty or her boyfriend,then when change was needed for daughter did they ask if the mother wanted custody,they gave custody to the aunties relative,mind you at least they were decent couple and although against cyfs protocol let the daughter see her mum when in town on holidays,showed the new caregivers that daughter wasn't terrified of her mum as made out to be.all this because the dept years ago regarded the mum as guilty but case was thrown out of court.yes the mother has a criminal record,yes she made some bad decisions when younger,i.e married at 17 and pregnant,no she didn;t molest her daughter,yes both the daughters get on with their mum,mum loves both daughters and grandsons(2).long winded yes but to many people go through cyfs and may do minor things and never see their kids.i admire the cyf workers for the job they do but,i feel they need people maybe who have been there done that type of experiance as well,just because the people might be older and lack basic writing skills they might have something to give via life skills learnt the hard way.not very pc to have say a jail bird work for them but might work too,to many egos and personal agendas get in the way of families.allways remember there is two sides to every story and cyfs forget that.

[oldrider]

I didn't want to mess with Sarge's thread. I couldn't help noticing a number of people making bitter comments about CYPS.

The Childrens and Young Persons Service (now called Children Youth and Family) exists to investigate and protect children from abuse, abandonment, and wilful neglect. It is staffed by career social workers and liases closely with the police.

Now for some reason many people have a negative view of CYPS. The reasons are easy enough. Occasionally they get it wrong - eg. removing a child who isn't in danger. There are even a few extreme cases where CYPS-approved foster parents have themselves been abusive.

However in my opinion these social workers are heros. They do a damned difficult and dangerous job. How many here would do it? I wouldn't.

If you work for CYPS you have to make judgement calls every day affecting families lives, and being human, mistakes can happen. A child left in a bad place, another removed from loving parents who made a single mistake. Awful I know.

These people are pilloried in the media without any intelligent enquiry as to why mistakes happen. What do they face every day and the realities of the work?

We don't have enough social workers and given the criticism of them by journalists and politicians, who'd want to be one? Fine............but who do you call about the kids down the road sitting waiting in the pub carpark?

Judging by the consistency of your posts and threads Winston001, I would say say you are sincere in your belief of what CYPS should stand for but it doesn't in fact work that way!

Socialists (and the majority of them are) believe that the State stands supreme and individuals and their rights have no place in a socialist world.

They believe that the government owns the state and the state owns the children.

The government through their agencies usurps the authority and the role of the parents but still try to hold the parents responsible for negative outcomes.

They adopt an all care and control attitude but no one can ever be nailed down or held responsible.

They hand that back to the parents with all the blame components they can piece together from their inexhaustible records.

I made scathing comments in various posts and it is because I have witnessed them at their destructive best on so many occasions over my lifetime.

They are supposed to be there to help families not to hinder them with their damn rules and regulations and total lack of flexibility in the application of them.

There is nothing so debilitating to a successful outcome as an inflexible public servant with a rule book and an agenda. They make me bloody sick. John.

[Str8 Jacket]

What I also love is people who have NEVER lived in welfare home commenting on what they think goes on....

(not directing this at you oldrider)

[ynot slow]

People who have never dealt with this outfit.They would believe any parent with kids under cyf's care don't deserve kids.I would be in that category maybe 15yrs ago.Until you see first hand what can happen you don't get a grasp of how bloody minded the agency can be.I have a mate who was a prick to his partner,not violent wise,but going out with the boys after sport,trying and also scoring girls on weekends,then had a girl,the mother had had enough so ditched him.He was told to have nothing to do with his girl,took quiet a few of us to stop him going over that night and either killing himself and his daughter(the old if i can't see her fuck them),and his ex for good measure.His ex said if you go for custody i'll say you abused her,then that's you history.Also one guy working with cyf's was in the same sports club as well so knew if it came to it,his conquests would be against his cause.

[Winston001]

I've read the above posts and am impressed. Some of you have lived what I have only observed. And you are fair-minded enough to say that one bad experience doesn't mean all of CYPS is bad.

Yes Oldrider I am sincere, albeit with an eye to a bit of a troll.

It's a dreadful conundrum. We have a few (still numbering into the thousands) of families which are dysfunctional. If CYPS don't intervene, the TV cameras and MPs are there at the child's hospital bed (or grave) baying for social worker blood.

When they do intervene, we see tearful mums on Closeup crying about how their children were ripped away from them. CYPS can't properly respond because they are bound by the Privacy Act and normal confidentiality.

Its a no bloody win situation.

[Winston001]

Organisations like CYF are, or should be, the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff, if a "healthy" society is doing its job. Expecting CYF to come running every time there is some instance of abuse or sub-optimal family circumstances is an unrealistic expectation. As is blaming CYF for the carnage they have to deal with on a daily basis and which, in fact, overwhelms their ability to make sense of it.

Changing this epidemic isn't CYF's responsibility. And, in typical Catch 22 mode, their ability to attract and retain competent, dedicated and motivated staff will not be enhanced until prospective social workers believe they can contribute in a manner that actually makes a difference.

This is about "us" not "them".

Your post is excellent and eloquent.