Death penalty

[Skyryder]

We are a bit OT here but correct me if I'm wrong - wasn't Watson represented at trial? He didn't act as his own lawyer? If the scratch marks were so obviously made when the hatch was open, why wasn't this raised in defence? Why didn't Watson point this out to his own lawyer?

Possibly because there is an explanation which doesn't fit with conspiracy theories.......... But hey - I'm guessing too.

I have no idea as I was not there but those that remember the case will no doubt recall the scratch marks that I have referred to and that it was reported that these were caused by Smart or Hope attempting to escape from Watsons boat. But we seem to be missing the point in that this thread is about the death penalty. I have no doubt that if NZ had the death penallty at the time of the Sounds murder Watson would have been hanged.


Skyryder

[kro]

Reading through some of your posts, you have raised points I quite often overlook when I think about crime and punishment.
There is a staggering amount of money wasted per annum on providing what I would call excessively easy living conditions for prisoners. Of the total, I bet there are some there, whom I would not consider worth the effort.
The Fenced Island idea would work well for these people imo, let them play "last Man Standing" among their kin.

Substance abuse as a "defense" in a court of law. I think this is an area that NZ needs to completely re-vamp, and make any crimes committed "under the influence" of an illegal substance, punishable in the same manner as a non intoxicated criminal. You shoved the needle in your veins/pipe in your mouth, so you don't get to hide behind that in a court of law. Its like they commit 2 heinous crimes, and use one crime to hedge off the severity of punishment of the other, that sux copious amounts of donkey dick imo.

[Patrick]

I have no idea as I was not there but those that remember the case will no doubt recall the scratch marks that I have referred to and that it was reported that these were caused by Smart or Hope attempting to escape from Watsons boat. But we seem to be missing the point in that this thread is about the death penalty. I have no doubt that if NZ had the death penallty at the time of the Sounds murder Watson would have been hanged.


Skyryder

Like I said before, levels of penalties... the scratch marks are not the whole case. From what I recall, even after they washed the entire interior of the boat with bleach (destroys blood and DNA apparently - but who washes out the entire inside of a boat out with bleach????) I believe they found hair from Olivia on a hair brush located inside the boat..., but I could be wrong...

Then again, what has WATSON given to society in the past? As you were....

Even if we have the death penalty, like those in the States for example, who are as guilty as sin are on death row for at least 15 to 20 years, so for those where there is small elements of doubt or any misgivings will be sorted before then...

[98tls]

Reading through some of your posts, you have raised points I quite often overlook when I think about crime and punishment.
There is a staggering amount of money wasted per annum on providing what I would call excessively easy living conditions for prisoners. Of the total, I bet there are some there, whom I would not consider worth the effort, as their minds are fucked up from drugs, and massively traumatic experiences from their murderous rampages.
Substance abuse as a "defense" in a court of law. I think this is an area that NZ needs to completely re-vamp, and make any crimes committed "under the influence" of an illegal substance, punishable in the same manner as a non intoxicated criminal. You shoved the needle in your veins/pipe in your mouth, so you don't get to hide behind that in a court of law. Its like they commit 2 heinous crimes, and use one crime to hedge off the severity of punishment of the other, that sux copious amounts of donkey dick imo.

Good post........never heard of it.totally agree with you

[98tls]

Like I said before, levels of penalties... the scratch marks are not the whole case. From what I recall, even after they washed the entire interior of the boat with bleach (destroys blood and DNA apparently - but who washes out the entire inside of a boat out with bleach????) I believe they found hair from Olivia on a hair brush located inside the boat..., but I could be wrong...

Then again, what has WATSON given to society in the past? As you were....

Even if we have the death penalty, like those in the States for example, who are as guilty as sin are on death row for at least 15 to 20 years, so for those where there is small elements of doubt or any misgivings will be sorted before then...

Absolutly.........most have seen a clean cut bloke looking totally respectable on the 6 oclock news without knowing anything of his past......watson was a fuck up way before he murdered those two............

[Patrick]

Good post........never heard of it.totally agree with you

Substance abuse is not a defence... shitkicker chooses to take substances, suffer the consequences is the short of it... a bit like a drink driver.... no one else makes them do it..... although most try to point the blame at something, anything...

[98tls]

Substance abuse is not a defence... shitkicker chooses to take substances, suffer the consequences is the short of it... a bit like a drink driver.... no one else makes them do it..... although most try to point the blame at something, anything...

yea i guess........how many times must a court have heard "i only killed those 3 people because i was forced to drink all day because i had a flashback of my old man giving me a thick ear when i was seven.....blah blah.I think what also needs to be considered in all this is some of the decisions that some of the judges come to.......drink driving especially....read a court page in any newspaper and its amazing how many smacks on the hand they dish out..people only get punished when they cause carnage,its pathetic..bit like putting the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff.....

[scumdog]

I take the reviewer of the gospel book you are spouting on about is a disgruntled ex legal aid failure of a lawyer who lost a parking ticket case to Pope in his early years and won't let it go...

Facts, not opinions, are what we deal with.... Pope included.

C'mon Patrick, stop praising the guy, he's only a reviewer, not a lawyer.....

[scumdog]

I have no doubt that if NZ had the death penallty at the time of the Sounds murder Watson would have been hanged.


Skyryder

ONLY if there was a blanket death sentence for any murder.

For a situation where there is a degree of murder there is no way Watson would have been sentenced to death.

Unlike the killer of Liam Ashley. (Whose worthless name escapes me)

[98tls]

ONLY if there was a blanket death sentence for any murder.

For a situation where there is a degree of murder there is no way Watson would have been sentenced to death.

Unlike the killer of Liam Ashley. (Whose worthless name escapes me)

The killer of young liam will be residing in an upstairs apartment with windows..all to him-self and no doubt be ensuring other liams to once they get out ensure that they do something to get back in......incredible really..go back a century or 2 and they used to put the worthless in a stinking,damp,rancid shithole beneath ground level........these days the worst of the worst get elevated to more comfortable surroundings........

[Skyryder]

ONLY if there was a blanket death sentence for any murder.

For a situation where there is a degree of murder there is no way Watson would have been sentenced to death.

Unlike the killer of Liam Ashley. (Whose worthless name escapes me)

Watson was convicted of a double killing. Given the attitude of the Judge who by his decisions appeared to have already predetermined guilt it is not unreasonable to conclude that Watson would have been sentanced to death.

Skyryder

[98tls]

Watson was convicted of a double killing. Given the attitude of the Judge who by his decisions appeared to have already predetermined guilt it is not unreasonable to conclude that Watson would have been sentanced to death.

Skyryder

I for one would have given a brief grunt of approval and carried on with cleaning my motorcycle inwardly satisfied...............

[Skyryder]

I for one would have given a brief grunt of approval and carried on with cleaning my motorcycle inwardly satisfied...............

Well that's your choice but the thing that worries me is that so many believe that Watson is guilty when a quick look at the evidence that convicted him his is so suspect. It's not just the hatch scratches, but the whole dam police investigation that was corrupt. And that is not a word that I use lightly but that is the only conclusion that I can come to. Pope wanted a conviction at any price. This guy is only one step away from being NZ's top cop. Now that should scare the shit out some here; it does me.


Skyryder

[98tls]

Well that's your choice but the thing that worries me is that so many believe that Watson is guilty when a quick look at the evidence that convicted him his is so suspect. It's not just the hatch scratches, but the whole dam police investigation that was corrupt. And that is not a word that I use lightly but that is the only conclusion that I can come to. Pope wanted a conviction at any price. This guy is only one step away from being NZ's top cop. Now that should scare the shit out some here; it does me.


Skyryder

Fair call on the second point......as for the first..watson qualified as as a loser way before the crime hes banged up for happened.......as far as im concerned every dog has there day.......

[Winston001]

Substance abuse as a "defense" in a court of law. I think this is an area that NZ needs to completely re-vamp, and make any crimes committed "under the influence" of an illegal substance, punishable in the same manner as a non intoxicated criminal.

It isn't a defense. It used to be, and was called intoxication or automatism even though drugs were often involved.

But it ain't an excuse in our law today. Where drugs and alcohol are relevant is in sentencing but it won't mean a shorter sentence, instead maybe some help for the problem.