Cheap oil filters

**Paul in NZ** · 2nd July 2007, 14:37

Well.... If there is one thing after tyres and oil to get a thread burning with anger it has to be filters....

Cheap filters? Bleugh!

Aftermarket ones? Why not if they are proven to be sound?? Personally I'm horrified by the prices Yamaha list filters (air / oil) for the little FZR400 I'm farting around with but I'm using them anyway. But I can see why people would be tempted!!!

Regardless, change the oil regularly.... Its still the cheapest thing you will ever put in a bike, particularly a big old lug with plain bearings like most of mine...

**F5 Dave** · 2nd July 2007, 16:59

Yes I do believe that some items are sold after-market from a different door of the same factory but the same product repackaged considerably cheaper. It can't help but be more expensive if it has to go through the manufacturers system & freight. The Wiseco for my GasGas is considerably cheaper if bought from the US as a Wiseco than as a GasGas part. -- At this point I offend the local dealers, but I had heard about the above & it was the case. We live in internet times for shopping. I support NZ shops where I can. Sometimes in different islands if the local guys are slack & they are responsive.

However I also believe as Robert indicates that like all brands they often make several grades, chains & batteries are a prime example. My Yuasa from my YZF750SP lives on in my RF9 14 yrs on just fine, yet someone was dissing them the other day as failing early in life. Made in China vs Japan.

A good quote from a friend was the response from a bearing supplier who had some grief over failing wheel bearings in a well known Aussie car many years ago. "We make $20 bearing, $12 bearing & $8 bearing. -You buy the $8 one".

My experience of always buying after-market oil filters ceased when a fairly new one of a well known brand (can't even remember now) disintegrated & plugged a gallery wearing out the cam & rockers on that side. Didn't seem that cheap then. Genuine from then on.

. . . Well except in the van, but they are comparatively huge & the tits at the local Toyota won't even acknowledge me if I walk in the shop.

Oh yeah & since when have Bose been better than cheap stuff? Marketing purely.

**Robert Taylor** · 2nd July 2007, 18:43

Originally Posted by avgas

I'm a simple sucker, if i try something and it works. Then i tell the world.
Likewise if i try something and it fails.....all hell breaks loose.
This trial and error approach has taught me that not all OEM stuff is gifts from the gods...nor worth paying through the teeth for all the time.
While i do think some OEM products require merit, i have also been burned big time by OEM stuff.
What really pisses me off is when OEM is so ridiculously overpriced, only to find it was made to the same quality as the after market. Or taking your thing to a Yamaha/Suzuki/Honda/Kawasaki mechanic, only to have it being fixed with aftermarket stuff as they cant wait the 12 weeks for Yamaha/Suzuki/Honda/Kawasaki Asia (usually Malaysia rather than Japan which doesn't make jack) to get off their fat asses and send shit out.
Why is it cheaper, easier and quicker for me to be sent parts from Europe/USA for the bike than it is for stuff to be sent from OEM china to OEM japan to OEM NZ to OEM distributor to the bloody workshop??????

Mmmm, maybe I shouldnt expend time replying to this post as most that have forwarded opinions understand what I was broadly eluding to, oil filters.

The links in the chain of supply ''colourfully'' mentioned by this post fails to mention in fact the biggest influence, freight plus levies plus clearance fees plus taxes, just watch it baloon.....

I have mentioned this on previous posts...it is inequitable that proper commercial operators pay all the levies, commercial clearance charges and taxes on not only the fob value of the goods but also tax on the levies, charges etc. But many one off casual offshore purchases by private individuals very often attract no charges. It is very surprising that this all taxing Government hasnt closed that very big loophole in lost revenue.

We have but 4 million people in these tiny isolated shaky isles and only a small percentage ride motorcycles. Cold hard commercial reality dictates that we dont have a large enough population base for all distributors to have all of the parts all of the time, its a no-brainer when you sit down and think about it.

The people at the factories ( who allegedly are wide of girth and lazy ) are dealing with tens of thousands of line items everyday, the volume of freight is enormous and neccessarily done in an orderly manner. If you have a system that is better then write to the factories.... And btw, I have been to the factories in Japan and driven past supplying vendors in Malaysia. I have also been to the Ohlins factory in Sweden 7 times and evidenced their quality control room checking and testing incoming components from supplying vendors.

Yes, many oem products are expensive as can be many aftermarket products. It is a matter of deciding if the product is suitable with a good standard of performance and durability. Sadly, it seems the metallurgy in many cheap imported products has the same constitution as weetbix. As sub standard oil filters could act like a constricted artery it is not worth the risk. Evidence another post re same.

**bimotabob** · 2nd July 2007, 18:48

Hi

My two cents worth:

A few years ago Suzuki NZ started importing engine filters (the common GSXR/SV/Bandit one) from China instead of Japan. I'm not sure whether this was because Japan stopped making them or the Chinese ones were cheaper - probably the latter. These have a prefix at the end of the part number that distinguishes them.
I can't say whether these Chinese ones are of poorer quality as without independant testing it's hard to know, but since the bikes made there are made to a arguably much lower standard it's a fair question to ask.
Eg GN250, SJ50 etc

In the past I worked in Industrial Equipment (parts division) with filters being a big part:
Hydraulic, Engine, fuel, Trans - even coolant!
It was scary because people often went for cheap filters on machinery worth over a 100k. This gear would incur losses of $100's to $1000's per day when idle.
Unless a seller has facts to back up how good there filter is why should we trust them?.
But If OEM says its ok to use them that goes a long way with me.

I came across a real no hold barred filter specialist once, these guys sell to the top end market only - I seen filters costing several hundred dollars. Not surprisingly I couldn't move a single unit.
They had lots of info about them though, the filter media was outstanding with coarse then fine layers etc, down to a few microns filtration.

I hear all the time people saying that this part is the same as that part with a different label (and price usually)
Come on people wake up - who told you that?? was there any actual proof provided to you?
It might be true - but is it your pocket that decides?
I bet it is.

What I am saying is that most people seem to want to spent less and is doesnt matter how expensive the gear is - that's why so many cars and bikes blow up - some of my slack mates have had that happen.
BASIC maintenance often just isnt done whether it be a Forklift making money -or even a Harley.
I often wonder whether these people actually manage to convince themselves
they are saving money - kind of like a self serving brain wash.

A great many engine filters for bikes are 'cheap' anyway - what's $10-20? well possibly cheap insurance!
My changes get done at 5000km intervals, I hear others say leave it till 10k it's fine!
I say to them: "did you hear about the person who blew his engine by changing the oil too much?"

If you can't afford an quality oil/filter change then perhaps you should buy a cheap pair of chinese running shoes...

Regards
BB

**Sensei** · 2nd July 2007, 19:39

Use this brand in my Aprilia " Hiflo "

http://www.hiflofiltro.com/7.0.html

**sAsLEX** · 3rd July 2007, 02:48

Originally Posted by Robert Taylor

the volume of freight is enormous and neccessarily done in an orderly manner. If you have a system that is better then write to the factories..

The japs invented good supply chain management http://www.12manage.com/methods_jit.html . I still ponder on how come it takes so long to get something, I think its the postage used maybe rather than warehouse level hold ups?

Ok. Your other point and the small market etc and how we should support motorcycle dealers in country.

Spark plugs for a NC30 = $55 dollars each for two available now and a six week wait for the other two.

15 bucks from repco, there next day.

Still hard to justify supporting bike dealers in some things, which is why I would hazard a guess you have specialised in suspension as the "black art" is not something these larger retailers can just bulk purchase.........

**sAsLEX** · 3rd July 2007, 09:11

NGK is NGK is it not, as they where, just that through the local Honda Dealer they were more.

**imdying** · 3rd July 2007, 09:12

Originally Posted by sAsLEX

I think its the postage used

At a guess, that's probably getting close. They probably bulk ship every 2 weeks or so. Keeps their freight pricing down, but is the reason things are always '3-4 weeks away', even if they only end up taking a week (or a day if they turned out to be in the national store) or whatever. Makes sense though... nobody wants to play $50 freight for a small gasket out of Japan... not when they could have it freight free by waiting 2 weeks.

**F5 Dave** · 3rd July 2007, 10:07

This is prevalent between different dealers too, a friend used to complain that (many years ago) his shop far outsold a local tyre specific shop yet they paid more for tyres than the tyre shop. Hardly fair but there you go.

Who buys beer or wine at the liqueur shop when the supermarket is cheaper? You'd have to be crazy. But as Robert indicates the social implications are further reaching.

The local non branded petrol station sells petrol about 10cent higher than the big stations. You can bet that they aren't buying it as cheap as they used to & a year after setting up the boom gets lowered. They are truly doomed. Some poor business owner is going down soon.

**HDTboy** · 3rd July 2007, 10:15

Originally Posted by Robert Taylor

Between Repco ( a big trans tasman chain ) and a small motorcycle dealer the same applies. While as I previously said there are some huge anomolies, it is rather too easy to slag motorcycle dealers without digging into the reasons, whys and wherefores. Over and out

While I'm very reluctant to get into the wrong side of this discussion. I don't think Repco can hold a candle to Honda, when it comes to buying power.

**Robert Taylor** · 3rd July 2007, 13:10

Originally Posted by HDTboy

While I'm very reluctant to get into the wrong side of this discussion. I don't think Repco can hold a candle to Honda, when it comes to buying power.

I understand your fears, if you raise a subject you will get a mixture of carefully though out reasoned responses. And you may also get some kneejerk ''Im angry with the world'' responses. So be it, that is the risk.

In response Repco indeed cannot hold a candle to Honda, but it is not Honda supplying the plugs. With only a little exception they are sourced from the NGK distributor.

**Jeaves** · 3rd July 2007, 14:50

Interesting thread this .

My opinion on filters : stick with "made in Japan" filters and buy genuine parts where you can.

My opinion on genuine parts: Sure genuine parts are a tad more expensive but worth it with their high manafacturing standards , technical back up and warranty.......thats what i would say to a genuine "car" parts buyer

For the motorcyclists........your getting tucked

**HDTboy** · 3rd July 2007, 15:13

Originally Posted by Robert Taylor

In response Repco indeed cannot hold a candle to Honda, but it is not Honda supplying the plugs. With only a little exception they are sourced from the NGK distributor.

Are you sure?
I know that BMW NZ get their NGK plugs from BMW AG. I'm assuming Honda would use a similar system.

Most of the time I will buy Genuine bike parts from the dealer, but I will always shop around, and if I can get the same part, in the same box, Why would I pay more? there's only so much aftersales service one can have on an oil filter, or set of spark plugs, and to a lesser degree brake pads.

Don't Ohlins make, distribute, and sell aftermarket parts?

**Jeaves** · 3rd July 2007, 15:31

I think the dealers get their NGK boxed plugs from Darbis . NGK's in honda boxes would come from Honda Japan who is supplied by NGK Japan.

Some companys also get them out of Aussie. The bigger ones straight out of Japan.