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Thread: The Robert Taylor suspension thread

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Taylor View Post
    The forks you mention are as individually anonymous to me as your own personal identity.

    The only second tier ''Ohlins name only'' products ''available'' are the ones fitted to some Yamaha models that were built for Japanese domestic market consumption only and never intended for export out of Japan. The majority shareholder in Ohlins flexing its muscle, and NZ ( as a country of often ''challenged'' thinking ) is taking cast offs.

    Not all Aprilia models have Ohlins forks. Right at this moment I have both a set of Aprilia Ohlins forks to service and a set of Showa forks from a cheaper Aprilia variant. The work instructions for the Showas is to rework them

    You say ''an earlier Aprilia 1000 model'' but no elaboration of overall condition. The Ohlins product on those Aprilias is fairly chunky in construction but very poor? First and only time Ive ever been told that, maybe as an engineer ( started my carreer with aircraft ) my perception of quality is different to yours....

    Point of fact the overall quality is very very high and so is the ultimate longevity. Much more so than a Japanese fork the overlap where the lower tube threads into the lower castings is substanially longer and stronger than in a Japanese sportbike fork. There are 2 current popular litre class Japanese sportbikes that will develop movement between the lower tube and bottom casting over time, especially if the rider likes pulling wheelies and is a late braker. When that happens it is a costly job. The Ohlins forks never develop that problem but if you bend a tube you can replace just that tube only as it is designed to be seperated from the casting. And guess what, cheaper than a Japanese fork to rebuild...

    Ohlins road and track forks also flex less under heavy braking and therefore ( the great disadvantage of inverted forks ) will not bind as readily. In inverted forks there is a bushing just above the oil seal and a second bushing further up roughly located halfway between the upper and lower triple clamps. The upper fork tubes can actually deflect a horrible amount under heavy braking meaning the bushings are no longer on the same centreline. The Japanese ''engineering by accountancy'' semi fix is just to increase clearances.

    For all their limitations ''right side up forks'' remain a lot more compliant under conditions that induce fork flex, simply because the primary bending moment is happening above the bushings...

    Cynically, I would suggest the ''lighter and lighter'' trend with modern Japanese sportbike forks also has a little to do with material costs. Many of these latest sportbike forks are very nicely ''turned out'' on the outside but
    underneath the outerwear can hide a whole load of horrible compromises. As one overseas road race suspension tuner I know will reluctantly testify, ''she wasnt a girl''.

    The new coatings do indeed work, but only when mated with either genuine seals or the very highest quality aftermarket seals who supply to oem. The coating itself is only virtually a wafer thin ''veneer mist'' Looks like MotoGP but thats where it stops.

    So we go inside the forks, theres one brand of litre class bike that for years has had a cartridge with a top bushing that is not on the same centreline as the out of round cartridge tube. To exacerbate that ( and this is common to all the oem stuff ) when the cartridge is bolted in it almost always cocks a little to one side because the lower casting surface it abuts against is not perpendicular to the fork tube! AND... one of the current crop of 600 sportbikes has the cheapest nastiest front fork cartridges that you have ever seen. As a term of relativity last years cartridges look as if they would have come out of the Ferrari factory ( although that rather flatters them ) This years look like a lowest level budget replacement that would be made in China for resale by SuperCheap auto.

    As an aftermarket company with a reputation for quality, engineering and performance excellence Ohlins pay very close attention to precise tolerancing and assembly truth. And the product is very tunable with an enormous setting bank of information readily accessible from the factory and other distributors. Point of fact we have our own database of knowledge and experience to further optimise the product performance for our often nasty road and track conditions.

    Last year Yamaha Motor Australias road race team raced with YZFR1SP's, equipped standard with Ohlins suspension at both eand poor backup of many cheap products I fully expect some retort by ''ghost writers'' My answer to that is I have no respect for those who make a living out of products that effectively misrepresent standards of performance and quality. And I especially have antipathy for those who provide no backup and those who are doing a lousy job through use of substandard parts, lack of appropriate tools, training and experience etc.

    Is anyone having problems with adjustment range with the oem Ohlins steering damper fitted standard to the most current model ZX10? If so we are currently testing a cost effective cure that we think will improve its performance substanially.
    The forks were on a Haga replica aprillia, they were definately ohlins ,I noticed the same thing on 2 aprillias and if you saw them youd see what I mean by poor quality externally at least, Im not doubting that 99% of ohlins stuff is ok ,Im still very happy with the shock I got off you and the amount i saved in rear rubber paid for the shock very quickly , but if you tried to sell me forks and they looked like the ones I saw itd be no deal, I saw the ohlins on the later Aprillias and they were what I expected

  2. #77
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  3. #78
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    Ohlins website has quite a bit of information on the new TTX and how they work
    Quote Originally Posted by Dean View Post
    Ok im coming out of my closet just this one time , I too kinda have a curvy figure which makes it worse beacuse im a guy. Well the waist kinda goes in and the bum pushes out. When I was in college the girls in my year would slap me on the arse and squeeze because apparently it is firm, tight... I wear jeans
    .....if I find this as a signature Ill hunt you down, serious, capice?

  4. #79
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    Hmmm, so the shocks on my MX bike are probably rooted by now...

    Got anything on the shelf to fit a 1979 XR250?


    As has been said, great reading in this thread.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by NordieBoy View Post
    Hmmm, so the shocks on my MX bike are probably rooted by now...

    Got anything on the shelf to fit a 1979 XR250?


    As has been said, great reading in this thread.
    We in fact custom build lots of twin shocks for especially classic MX, in varying levels of specification

  6. #81
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    How much would a very base level set of shocks go for?
    I'd be guessing it would be a lot more than the rest of the bike was worth.

    I'm not a serious racer although you may have thought so by my choice of steed so 1980's type fixes may be enough for the meantime.

    Now if I can find a C&J frame to put my engine in it may be a different story

  7. #82
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    Robert, replacing the rear shock is a relatively simple matter on most bikes, but is it then a big (and expensive) deal mating it with some uprated front suspension? MY VFR800 has fairly low-budget Showa suspension, and 44K miles on the odometer. While I can get a replacement rear shock that will improve the back end, what do I do with the front? Cartridge emulators, the right weight/volume of oil and better springs?

    I know some VFR owners have replaced the forks with CBR600RR or VTR1000 lowers and fitted new springs, or even gone to R1 or SP1/SP2 USD forks, but none of these options is easy here, with good replacement forks being hard to get hold of and relatively expensive.
    ... and that's what I think.

    Or summat.


    Or maybe not...

    Dunno really....


  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by NordieBoy View Post
    How much would a very base level set of shocks go for?
    I'd be guessing it would be a lot more than the rest of the bike was worth.

    I'm not a serious racer although you may have thought so by my choice of steed so 1980's type fixes may be enough for the meantime.

    Now if I can find a C&J frame to put my engine in it may be a different story
    $1290 per pair inclusive, piggyback reservoir. Or if there is enough length for a dividing gas piston within a single tube type then figure $1100 incl.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by vifferman View Post
    Robert, replacing the rear shock is a relatively simple matter on most bikes, but is it then a big (and expensive) deal mating it with some uprated front suspension? MY VFR800 has fairly low-budget Showa suspension, and 44K miles on the odometer. While I can get a replacement rear shock that will improve the back end, what do I do with the front? Cartridge emulators, the right weight/volume of oil and better springs?

    I know some VFR owners have replaced the forks with CBR600RR or VTR1000 lowers and fitted new springs, or even gone to R1 or SP1/SP2 USD forks, but none of these options is easy here, with good replacement forks being hard to get hold of and relatively expensive.
    Yes these have the non compliant high friction shock from hell, Arnold Scharzeneger developed the internal setting spec and receives royalties from the tyre companies......my Scandinavian friends have a great solution for the rear end.

    I will consult my database tommorrow re what is in the forks on those, they may be low grade cartridge type. Irrespective we can achieve an enormous improvement in compliance while maintaining great ride height control. This without resorting to grafting on other forks plus all the appendages and costly time consuming hassles.

  10. #85
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    Mr Taylor ... have you an opinion on the effectiveness of Honda's electronic steering damper?

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sollyboy View Post
    The forks were on a Haga replica aprillia, they were definately ohlins ,I noticed the same thing on 2 aprillias and if you saw them youd see what I mean by poor quality externally at least, Im not doubting that 99% of ohlins stuff is ok ,Im still very happy with the shock I got off you and the amount i saved in rear rubber paid for the shock very quickly , but if you tried to sell me forks and they looked like the ones I saw itd be no deal, I saw the ohlins on the later Aprillias and they were what I expected
    OK, curiosity has got the better of me, thanks to imdying we all could have easily "got wood" just looking at the piccys...

    So what it is that makes these Swedish items of desire "poor quality", cause for the life of me I just don't get it???

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by TDC View Post
    OK, curiosity has got the better of me, thanks to imdying we all could have easily "got wood" just looking at the piccys...

    So what it is that makes these Swedish items of desire "poor quality", cause for the life of me I just don't get it???
    Im talking about one particular example that I didnt see on the later up spec model, and that photo would not have enough detail to see what Im talking about, mind you hes already said there is japolin knock offs out there so who knows

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sollyboy View Post
    Im talking about one particular example that I didnt see on the later up spec model, and that photo would not have enough detail to see what Im talking about, mind you hes already said there is japolin knock offs out there so who knows
    As I read it there are "japolin knock offs" for rear shocks but not for front forks? If those piccy's can't show what you mean I guess it must be pretty minor...

    Anyhow just curious...

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by vifferman View Post
    Robert, replacing the rear shock is a relatively simple matter on most bikes, but is it then a big (and expensive) deal mating it with some uprated front suspension? MY VFR800 has fairly low-budget Showa suspension, and 44K miles on the odometer. While I can get a replacement rear shock that will improve the back end, what do I do with the front? Cartridge emulators, the right weight/volume of oil and better springs?

    I know some VFR owners have replaced the forks with CBR600RR or VTR1000 lowers and fitted new springs, or even gone to R1 or SP1/SP2 USD forks, but none of these options is easy here, with good replacement forks being hard to get hold of and relatively expensive.
    The forks are indeed low grade cartridge type and can be improved significantly. E-mail me robert@northwest.co.nz and I will give you a menu of options

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanx View Post
    Mr Taylor ... have you an opinion on the effectiveness of Honda's electronic steering damper?
    I havent directly analysed any but will be looking at a Suzuki example soon, with an open mind. If they suffer cavitation like the other oem offerings then it wont matter how much technology there is to arrange a damping curve that is progressive. So much is done for marketing reasons rather than pure no nonsense function.

    There must be a degree of skepticism out there because the Honda race team substituted the electronic offerings on their CBR1000RR race bikes with Ohlins sidemount. And I have also fielded enquiries for same for 07 CBR600RR.

    The jury is out on this one......

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