Free energy?

[xwhatsit]

And we know for a fact that there are plenty of perpetual motion mathingie machines around today, as there has been for hundreds of years..

Pardon me?

[Biff]

Pardon me?

We do?

The wood screw thingy shown in Wicki was the first claimed such widget, invented around 1600.

And my gran has one of those jumping dolphin things, the kind with weights on it. The box clearly stated that the machine was a perpetual motion device....so it must have been true.

And I once saw a doco on the Dicovery channel, and in it it showed a magnetic/dynamo closed look circuit type of setup, the inventor claimed it'd been running for years. But admitted that he thought it was slowing down, probably due to friction.

Bloody friction.

Bloody rules.

[xwhatsit]

The wood screw thingy shown in Wicki was the first claimed such widget, invented around 1600.

And my gran has one of those jumping dolphin things, the kind with weights on it. The box clearly stated that the machine was a perpetual motion device....so it must have been true.

And I once saw a doco on the Dicovery channel, and in it it showed a magnetic/dynamo closed look circuit type of setup, the inventor claimed it'd been running for years. But admitted that he thought it was slowing down, probably due to friction.

Bloody friction.

Bloody rules.

You're trolling, right?

If your Discovery channel man had a closed loop system like that, then for a start he's doing very well to get back 100% of the energy put out. That, in itself, is amazing -- never mind the principle of entropy, of course . However, even if he was getting 100% efficiency, the point he made about friction is completely valid. xx% of that 100% energy return will be going in to conquering that friction -- no matter how small the friction is -- so while the thing will keep on going for a long time eventually it'll run out of puff. And that's disregarding entropy entirely.

Secondly, of course -- but this is not central to the concept of perpetual motion itself, just for making it useful -- how are you ever going to extract usable work out of this thing? If all the energy it produces is going back into making it run, then there's none left over to power your hairdryer anyway.

You are trolling, aren't you?

[Edbear]

You're trolling, right?

People on KB trolling...????!!!!!

[Biff]

You're trolling, right?

.............................

[swbarnett]

"By free we mean that the energy produced is done so without recourse to external source."

Bollocks! Conservation of energy principle states that if there's energy out there must be energy in.

A couple of chemists claimed to have invented a fusion reactor but it turned out that they had no idea how to detect neutrons (that takes a physicist). This free energy machine is probably the same. These guys just have no idea what they're talking about and see what they want to see.

[Biff]

I look forward to buying mine too Biff.

You heathen. Here, hard evidence. $500 to you:

http://www.officeplayground.com/cosmos.html

and here

http://www.allwaze.com/woodcraft-hover.htm

[swbarnett]

And I fart in the face of your thermodynamics - because either or both of the first rules of thermodynamics state it's not possible for a perpetual motion machinamathingy to work anyway. And we know for a fact that there are plenty of perpetual motion mathingie machines around today, as there has been for hundreds of years..

How old are you? You'll have to live to infinity to prove any given machine is truly perpetual.

You may build a machine that will run on it's own for a year, two, or even longer but you will never build a machine that will run for ever. Let's assume for the sake of argument that you can eliminate 100% of the friction in a system. As soon as you put a load onto it to extract useful energy you will slow the system and it will eventually stop.

Or are you just bating the hook to see who's high strung enough to bite?

[swbarnett]

You heathen. Here, hard evidence. $500 to you:

http://www.officeplayground.com/cosmos.html

and here

http://www.allwaze.com/woodcraft-hover.htm

These are not perpetual motion machines. They have an external energy source (the battery). They are probably as close as anyone will ever get though and very mesmerising.

[sAsLEX]

It must be good when they can't even get their demo to work......

Energy! Free! - does not compute!

This came out last year saying they were weeks/months awy from being proved right.......

We humans like poo pooing ideas if they so much as belch in the face of scientific principles and 'rules'..

The world is flat dammit!

[Karma]

1904 - Radar
1913 - bras
1923 - hearing aids
1951 - contraceptive pill
1965 - HTML
1971 - floppy disc

"Everything that can be invented has been invented."
Charles H. Duell, Commissioner, U.S. patent office, 1899

What we may accept as law and nature today, may tomorrow seem ridiculous.

[xwhatsit]

1904 - Radar
1913 - bras
1923 - hearing aids
1951 - contraceptive pill
1965 - HTML
1971 - floppy disc

"Everything that can be invented has been invented."
Charles H. Duell, Commissioner, U.S. patent office, 1899

What we may accept as law and nature today, may tomorrow seem ridiculous.

HTML didn't come about until 1991; or 1989 if you count its predecessor.

It's all very well to trot out the `world is flat' argument, but unfortunately the laws of thermodynamics seem rather more difficult to disprove than the word of God was.

[sAsLEX]

more difficult to disprove than the word of God was.

Difficult and impossible are two different things.

[steved]

and here

http://www.allwaze.com/woodcraft-hover.htm

Why would they say this?

Batteries are used to overcome the air friction losses and simply give the moving arm a 'kick' each time it passes the base. Each Levitating Motion Sculpture takes four AA batteries, and will continue to rotate from several months to a year, on the one set prior to replacement.

Obviously they haven't grasped the fact that they are all geniuses! They must have been gotten to but the estabilishment, or government, or military, or all three.

[Karma]

It's all very well to trot out the `world is flat' argument, but unfortunately the laws of thermodynamics seem rather more difficult to disprove than the word of God was.

I'm sure people said the same thing about splitting the atom and transmitting huge amounts of data over the air in seconds.

Take any of our recent achievements back in time by only 50 years and you'd be classed as some kinda magician. What's to say what will happen in the next 10-20 years?