The new Pro Twins class

[FROSTY:Me]

Just wanting to get a bit of feedback on the new pro twins class.
The rules to me look a heck of a long way from being a "stock" bike class.
Cam sprockets can be slotted.
Full aftermarket race fairings can be fitted.
Full aftermarket exhaust systems can be fitted.
Power comanders can be fitted
Aftermarket suspension front and rear can be fitted (stock externals on the front)
Wets can be used.-meaning spare rims will be neeeded in most cases

Doing the addition to have a cvompetative pro twins bike you'll need to spend around $5000.00 on the bike over and above what you pay for the basic ride

[Tim 39]

yes but if they were made to be completely stock it would be like watching classic tractor racing around a race track
I was a bit suprised at the power commander being legal I must say, I thought that was a wee bit far.

[slowpoke]

Just wanting to get a bit of feedback on the new pro twins class.
The rules to me look a heck of a long way from being a "stock" bike class.
Cam sprockets can be slotted.
Full aftermarket race fairings can be fitted.
Full aftermarket exhaust systems can be fitted.
Power comanders can be fitted
Aftermarket suspension front and rear can be fitted (stock externals on the front)
Wets can be used.-meaning spare rims will be neeeded in most cases

Doing the addition to have a cvompetative pro twins bike you'll need to spend around $5000.00 on the bike over and above what you pay for the basic ride

Let's see:
1. cam sprockets are easily drilled and slotted in your home garage.
2. aftermarket fairings are normally fitted anyway
3. I understand the stock exhaust system on an SV650 is very expensive and you can't just unbolt the can (has to be cut off) so most people would do this anyway, or hacksaw the OEM can off.
4. PC could be seen as extravagant
5. I remember a thread on here mentioning that stock suspension is not exactly ideal and modifications should be allowed for safety reasons
6. Not totally necessary if treaded tyres are the class rules

Which I reckon really only leaves the Power Commander, some dyno time and the extra rims as the "luxury" items. Not exactly exhorbitant but not the bare minimum either. Still sounds like cheap fun to me.

[Tim 39]

Let's see:
1. cam sprockets are easily drilled and slotted in your home garage.
2. aftermarket fairings are normally fitted anyway
3. I understand the stock exhaust system on an SV650 is very expensive and you can't just unbolt the can (has to be cut off) so most people would do this anyway, or hacksaw the OEM can off.
4. PC could be seen as extravagant
5. I remember a thread on here mentioning that stock suspension is not exactly ideal and modifications should be allowed for safety reasons
6. Not totally necessary if treaded tyres are the class rules

Which I reckon really only leaves the Power Commander, some dyno time and the extra rims as the "luxury" items. Not exactly exhorbitant but not the bare minimum either. Still sounds like cheap fun to me.

I agree with you there, to run completely stock would end up costing more, by the time you buy a whole new exhaust each time you crash!

[R6_kid:Me]

so:
A second hand SV650k3+ is about 6-7K
Ohlins rear shock - $1100 or so
Fairings $600-700
PC3 - $500
Exhaust system - can only $500 or $1200+ for full system
Yoshi Cams - $1000 or more
re-sprung front end... or can you use GSXR600 or similar item?

Looking at minimum $10k on track costs to be 'in the mix'

But what i think the main gain will be is that the field will be relatively more fair than F3 where some people were running bikes with $20k+ spent and some running on bog standard road items with race fairings.

[Tim 39]

you cant run the GSXR600 forks because they have to be the standard outers (conventional)
I think $10k isn't too bad for a nationally competitive bike that age

[codgyoleracer]

I am with you Frosty on that one, stock is stock - (think streetstock class & only allow a few more things in).
Obvious items to allow: Fairings replacement but keep stock shape but allow fiberglass race type, slip on exhust can only & stock air filter, stock intake & airbox so that fueling doesnt need changing.
Internal changes only to front & rear suspension.
Treaded road tyres only of an approved type (all brands have a proper road sport tyre to suit (rather than the cut slick masquerading as road tyre, which are dodgy in the wet). How hard can it be for MNZ to nominate the range allowable in tyres Paul Pav is very capable of making a call on what is appropriate from each of the popular suppliers.
Brake pads & oils/fluids open. Gearing changes allowed. + allow crash bungs.

Allow removal of stuff like instruments, lights, indicators, number plates

EVERYTHING else stock, which includes pegs, rearsets, levers, frame & subframe, underseat trays & batteries, throttle body & cabling, clutches, All engine internals, radiators, charging system & starter operational, no de-looming, bars, wheels, discs, callipers, brake lines, fuel tank, front seat, chain size all stock, pump fuel,

People that claim that some of these limitations to mods are unsafe should remember that the bikes intended for this class are mostly modern & reasnobly well behaved when set up right.

If you want to do a bunch of other mods & go faster then move up to full F3 spec machine which allows you to "expand" your imagination. Or look at 600;s or superbike.

Oh and also add the statement to the rules "All items not mentioned must be as per the original road going motorcycle" + maybe even nominate a weight minimum maybe to stop serious lightening of the bike in "out of view " places.
Scales are cheap & its a real easy thing to check - Maybe no more than 15% under the stated manufactures weight for the motorcycle ?

The idea being is that someone (if they wish) can literally turn up on their road bike , strip some stuff off it & go racing............at minimal cost & race against similar powered & similar weight machines.
If you allow all the other stuff - the list & the expense just goes on & on & on. Believe me - you can spend a small fortune building a bike & keeping within "rules".
If you allow to many changes to these machines people will just look at them & realise A) They cant afford the time or cost to build a specialist race bike B) They wont be competitve on their "road bike"

The key question being - is this class targeted at attracting new people into road racing ?, or is it simply another race class for the existing road racers to "spread out into"' - Meaning smaller classes overall..............

All the above is off the top of my head & no doubt a lot of other stuff could be commented on, the rules are in place now & at least we can move on from there.

Glen

[GSVR]

In some ways the rules are good as you can buy a brand new bike take all the road subframes etc off it then thrash the hell out of it on the track for a season then fit all the nice clean undamaged roadbits back on it and sell it as a mint low mileage roadbike.

Can't believe I just said that.

[svs]

i think they're pretty good. at no point did anyone say it was a 'no modifications' class. What they've got here is pretty much a bare minimum which is whats been pointed out above.

Need to do suspension for safety reasons (i think that's been discussed here many times). rear shocks on these bikes are non rebuildable, so you need to replace. stick different spings and emulators up front and all is well.

Reason you need a PC is cos if you just bolt on a race exhaust, then your mixture will be all wrong. what's the cheapest and easiest way to fix with a fuel injected bike? A Power Commander.

And aftermarket fairings are much cheaper than trashing your road plastics.

Spare rims - well that's up to you.

Still a damn cheap way to get into national level racing

[codgyoleracer]

i think they're pretty good. at no point did anyone say it was a 'no modifications' class. What they've got here is pretty much a bare minimum which is whats been pointed out above.

Need to do suspension for safety reasons (i think that's been discussed here many times). rear shocks on these bikes are non rebuildable, so you need to replace. stick different spings and emulators up front and all is well.

Reason you need a PC is cos if you just bolt on a race exhaust, then your mixture will be all wrong. what's the cheapest and easiest way to fix with a fuel injected bike? A Power Commander.

And aftermarket fairings are much cheaper than trashing your road plastics.

Spare rims - well that's up to you.

Still a damn cheap way to get into national level racing

Note the key question as to where the class is targeted in my boring spiel......, originally it was mooted to operate as a class to get people started in road racing & give young riders a chance without to much bike prep needed. Stuff that is simple to many "power commander etc etc" is gobbldy gook & scarey to a beginner

[avgas]

I don't like stock class. they wouldn't let me ride in streetstock - mainly cos some of the big guys whined.
How about a 800cc single/650 twin class?? would be quite exciting.

[RG150&SV650#96]

LET THE CHEATING BEGIN!
I was all for the idea of standard sv class i currently have a standard sv 650 tht I have been racing for the last year.

Who is going to police this class??
this class was heading in the rite direction of sumthing good.

[limbimtimwim]

Note the key question as to where the class is targeted in my boring spiel......, originally it was mooted to operate as a class to get people started in road racing & give young riders a chance without to much bike prep needed. Stuff that is simple to many "power commander etc etc" is gobbldy gook & scarey to a beginner

Any motorcycling racing is expensive. I cannot believe the amount of money I have spent getting my RVF and gear in state to race. And this is just for Clubmans B! Anyone interested in racing knows what a power commander is. And if their bike has carbs, they know that some fiddling is likely onces that standard muffler comes off.

Pro twins, to me, appears to be a moderately cheap way of getting into racing. You should be able to spend only so much on a pro twins bike before yours is just as good as the best bike in the field. In say F3 you could just pour money into your bike and still comply with the rules.

If I didn't have a good 400cc bike already, I'd be there next year in pro twins, it sounds like it could be a lot of fun with a playing field level for as many people as possible. Less worries about finding HP and tweaking suspension, more time out there out-skilling your opponents.

At least, that is how it appears to me.

[FROSTY:Me]

Codgy said it so much better than me.
The INTENT was a production based class.
MUFFLER replacement for economy reasons.-The cop out that you have to cut off the factory muffler to me is just that.
Replica of FACTORY fairings for economy reasons. So you WOULD be able to get glass copies of factory fairings FOR THAT BIKE
DIRECT replica of pegs and bars for economy reasons.-so brackets n pegs cast here in NZ would be fine as long as they sat in factory position
Some suspension upgrading for safety reasons--Limited
How all the extra stuff found its way in Has me baffled.
Seems to me that basicly BAR the USD front end most of the F3 bikes on the track now would be allowed in Pro Trins

[sAsLEX]

Are pegs and bars that big a cost? I mean road bikes are not really designed for 50 degree lean angles race bikes can get so I would of thought most race classes would allow rear sets?