The new Pro Twins class

**Drew** · 26th July 2007, 21:02

Originally Posted by Tim 39

MNZ are going to need to be quite strict on the rules, but without being obvious not a great deal can be done to get much of an advantage as far as I know. Power commanders are already legal and so are the cam modifications

Cam timing is free, lobe alterations are not, and although it is hard to check duration for modification, lift is simple.

The thing is, MNZ wont do a bloody thing about somebody cheating, untill somebody lodges a protest, which costs the persons bitching $500 I'm told.

**Kickaha** · 26th July 2007, 21:13

Originally Posted by Drew

The thing is, MNZ wont do a bloody thing about somebody cheating, untill somebody lodges a protest, which costs the persons bitching $500 I'm told.

I didn't think it was that much and if it's upheld I don't think it costs anything

**Drew** · 26th July 2007, 21:15

Originally Posted by Kickaha

I didn't think it was that much and if it's upheld I don't think it costs anything

$50 deposit to get the forms to fill in, but yeah, if you're right, it's free. I think that's how it works anyway.

**Tim 39** · 26th July 2007, 22:02

I'm assuming there will be a tech inspection for these bikes at nationals, like the 600's. That's about the best way to control cheating

**roogazza** · 27th July 2007, 09:09

This new class isn't there yet , but when things start getting competitive (like half a dozen fighting for the lead ! and a field of forty.) The cheating will be there ! In 410 production , if you had 3 more hp it was noticable !
Kiwi's are very inventive !!!!!!!!! Gaz.

**flame** · 27th July 2007, 10:13

I can never understand why some people must cheat. At the end of the day they are only really 'cheating themselves'

. I hope that everyone gettin caught cheating gets there race licence banned permanantly.

It used to happen all the time in the equestrian world I competed in. So much doping of horses it wasn't funny

. But they would shamefully be caught in the end. And any former glory they had was swept embarrassingly away from them. But knowing you had lined up in 2nd place to a 'scam' when the championship shoulda belonged to you was something that could not be 'undone'.

Oh well.....I guess a perfect world would be dull

**johnsv650** · 27th July 2007, 20:16

people race to enjoy there riding and compare with results with others..

**Possum41** · 30th July 2007, 21:39

The reason people will try and have that little bit extra over their competitors is because we are all competitive and want the top place on the podium. After all we racers arn't out there on race day for a sunday joy ride. I don't condone cheating and i decided to be different from the pack and try out the new Hyosung 650. So far so good and without second gear in the box have managed 2 2nd place finishes at Vic Club. So with more track days and a fixed gearbox(which will be ready by round 4) theres nothing stopping me dicing for the lead(sorry Glen but someone has to try and stop your clean sweep

) and Drew i won't need to ride so defensivly just to keep you at bay. It means i can also maintain my position into turn 1 and not go from 3rd to 7th all the time.
I am all for this class as it means i don't need to spend mega just to be at the front of the field.

**Drew** · 31st July 2007, 06:58

Originally Posted by Possum41

The reason people will try and have that little bit extra over their competitors is because we are all competitive and want the top place on the podium. After all we racers arn't out there on race day for a sunday joy ride. I don't condone cheating and i decided to be different from the pack and try out the new Hyosung 650. So far so good and without second gear in the box have managed 2 2nd place finishes at Vic Club. So with more track days and a fixed gearbox(which will be ready by round 4) theres nothing stopping me dicing for the lead(sorry Glen but someone has to try and stop your clean sweep

) and Drew i won't need to ride so defensivly just to keep you at bay. It means i can also maintain my position into turn 1 and not go from 3rd to 7th all the time.
I am all for this class as it means i don't need to spend mega just to be at the front of the field.

Roll on race day!!! I'll get by you and Glen, and the pair of you can hold each other up while I ride away to victory

lol. Kidding by the way.

See ya next month

**codgyoleracer** · 31st July 2007, 08:50

Hey Possum, good to hear that youll have that bike running closer to 100% at the next round, I dont have a bike at the moment - but hopefully will get it together in time.
On the ProTwins subject & working "within the rules" - As Roogaza ses the quick bikes will be noticable - but then a quick rider makes a bike "look " quick anyway. (a 1kph higher exit speed out of a slow corner gives 8-10kph more built up speed 300meters down the track). At that rate Drew should be entering Higgins at about 300kph +.........lol
Generally though the quicker riders tend end up on the quicker bikes & the differentials of speed & lap times is controlled by good bike prep, good suspension set up, $ spent + higher riding skill level. These all acentuate the speed diferences between the bikes in the field. This speed differential can easily be confused in a "standard class" as cheating.
Personally I dont believe that there is much cheating going on in New Zealand, bending the rules though is a little more common & this is driven by the riders willingness to experiment with modifications that "might not be cosha" or it could be driven by just plain ignorance of the rules.
What this protwins discussion is about to me is the level of changes that are "allowable" appears to open up the class to relativly modified bikes - rather than a true stock class. But as I have said before - this all depends on what type of "new rider" this class is supposed to be targeted at & also was this class ever mooted to be a "super-stock" rule class anyway ?

**Tim 39** · 31st July 2007, 19:48

I'm of a similar opinion to you about the rules. I believe a completely stock class would suck. These bikes handle like crap out of the box because they're designed as tourers, the only stock road bikes that handle ok are the 150's because they dont have enough power to cause problems. When people get into racing I doubt they think it's cheap to be competitive, the reason they do it and work to pay for it is because it's so fun... with these mods allowed it will be lots of fun! (rather than scary like standard form)
The way I see it is that under the current rules this class will thrive

**Drew** · 31st July 2007, 21:15

Originally Posted by Tim 39

I'm of a similar opinion to you about the rules. I believe a completely stock class would suck. These bikes handle like crap out of the box because they're designed as tourers, the only stock road bikes that handle ok are the 150's because they dont have enough power to cause problems. When people get into racing I doubt they think it's cheap to be competitive, the reason they do it and work to pay for it is because it's so fun... with these mods allowed it will be lots of fun! (rather than scary like standard form)
The way I see it is that under the current rules this class will thrive

BOLLOCKS!!! They handle fine if you know how to read them, as does damn near any bike.

There are improvements to be had for sure, but saying they handle like crap is un educated drivell to my mind.

They aint scary, the limit is just there earlier than it could be.

A standard race class would be just as much fun as a modified class.

**Keystone19** · 31st July 2007, 21:25

Originally Posted by Drew

They aint scary, the limit is just there earlier than it could be.

I have to agree Drew. I've ridden both modified and standard SV650s and enjoyed both. It's just that you find the limits on the stock bike earlier than you do on a modified bike.

The protwin class is in its early days yet, I figure it won't be until after its had a season under its belt that we'll start to figure out some of the pros and cons to the allowable modifications. At least MNZ has made a decision and we have something to work with for the coming season.

**Tim 39** · 31st July 2007, 21:26

when my mate had his in standard form, it was ok with the road tyres on it but when he went to race tyres and had more grip he started getting quite serious handling problems including squatting at the back making the front get quite loose on corner exits and also developed quite a nasty head shake when hard on the power (I was beside him a few times when all this was going on). I guess it depends on the rider and their riding style because without much adjustability its going to be better for some than others. Since he haas upgraded the suspension it hasn't been a problem, and it's been a far more friendly bike.
thats what I formed my opinion on anyway