The new Pro Twins class

[Drew]

Im sorry are you saying Tjebbe Bruin and Shaun Harris WEREN'T Qualified to set up my bike?
My bad

Sarcasm does't help anyone dig thier way from a hole Tony. You are taking a lot of what's being said personally, when I think a more objective veiw will be benificial.

The thread has taken a turn towards the reasoning of replacing stock suspension. Most people on here are explaining how they see it, and RT is doing a pretty bloody good job of taking those thoughts, and explaining how it really is. (Even if he does keep putting his political opinions in the middle of it)

[FROSTY:Me]

After a full season on a badly set up bike.--I might add my own doing--I had got myself hopelessly confused.
Yes I did indeed use someone else--Someone I know has been improveing suspension for many years.I asked his advice happy to spend the money for a reengineered shock. I was advised otherwise going for a longer shock mount rather than a longer shock body.
I'm happy to say that Shaun Harris --after riding it several months after the lenthening --explained what was wrong with my bike and fixed it for me.
I explained to him that Robert had told me what was needed but after a ride He disagreed feeling that the shock on the bike worked fine.
I don't claim to be a suspension guru but I do have apsolute faith in Shauns word.

I must add my BIGGEST mistake was not asking Shaun to ride my bike 12 months earlier when I was 3-4 seconds off the Pukie F3 lap record.I believe now I would have saved myself a season of total frustration.

[Possum41]

After a full season on a badly set up bike.--I might add my own doing--I had got myself hopelessly confused.
Yes I did indeed use someone else--Someone I know has been improveing suspension for many years.I asked his advice happy to spend the money for a reengineered shock. I was advised otherwise going for a longer shock mount rather than a longer shock body.
I'm happy to say that Shaun Harris --after riding it several months after the lenthening --explained what was wrong with my bike and fixed it for me.
I explained to him that Robert had told me what was needed but after a ride He disagreed feeling that the shock on the bike worked fine.
I don't claim to be a suspension guru but I do have apsolute faith in Shauns word.

Advice is a very tricky thing.
Professionals are always advising us every day of different things we do in our lives and sometimes the advise IS different from one person to another.

We never like to admit when we are wrong because the facts we base our thoughts or actions on are from a professionals advice.

So we need to chose or experiment with each of those different points and see which one actually works for you and is more effective.

But that doesn't mean to say that the other professional was wrong it's just that his advise wasn't as effective.

The thing with suspension is that alot of people have alot of RIGHT ideas with what you should do with it and to be honest i also got myself so confused with setup that i decided to chose very carefully the good points that i thought would work and went with those.
I think i have a fair idea now and the bike seems to work good for me but who knows, as i start to strip more seconds away from my lap times it may mean i might have to make a few more adjustments. But for now i'm happy

[Robert Taylor]

Sarcasm does't help anyone dig thier way from a hole Tony. You are taking a lot of what's being said personally, when I think a more objective veiw will be benificial.

The thread has taken a turn towards the reasoning of replacing stock suspension. Most people on here are explaining how they see it, and RT is doing a pretty bloody good job of taking those thoughts, and explaining how it really is. (Even if he does keep putting his political opinions in the middle of it)

Thankyou for clarifying what the thread is actually about! The points I were trying to reinforce to Frosty;

1) The correct and proper way of modifying the shock was told to him. He had it done by a cheaper method that the manufacturer of the shock would be horrified with. There are plenty of people posing as Ohlins specialists but very very few are privy to the actual training and factory information etc. The guy you mentioned is very good at many things but I wouldnt have done that sort of job. I am not looking for work but do like to see things done properly and ethically.

I used Frostys example because it is but one of many and it certainly / subsequently embellished his pre-amble to it.

Beleive me, I see ''shockers'' all the time.

2) Nothing wrong with having a top rider look at your bike, but as I have said it is important for the rider of the bike to have a higher level of set up knowledge. What works on day one at track one will not neccessarily work so well on day two at track two.

There is no magic setting that works well at every track in every condition, as I beleive a number of riders may well beleive.

3) Opinions are fine but I think it is prudent to be deadly sure of ones facts before submission of posts.

As for my politics, no argument about that. I simply see that our living standards are being compromised ( by both ''flavours'' ) and that reduces our expendable income for motorcycling. As a ''compassionate conservative'' I have a solid track record of helping out many riders at all levels, including a number of past championship winners who have had much of my time and loan of expensive product for no charge.


Cowpoos / Frosty ; September suspension set up seminar in Auckland?

[scracha]

Cowpoos / Frosty ; September suspension set up seminar in Auckland?

Why not do it at Taupo ?

[Drew]

Cowpoos / Frosty ; September suspension set up seminar in Auckland?

I'll be there, would get a real good turn out, if you do it at Taupo the day before the Actrix race meeting there.

Dunno how it normally works, if there is a charge, it could be bumped a bit to cover accomodation and booze for ya.

[Deano]

Beleive me, I see ''shockers'' all the time.

You should have seen the set up on my CBR400RR when I bought it. It had a CBR600 shock in it that was too long and it bottomed out on the linkage thingy. Whoever did the mod had ground into the linkage to try and stop it hitting.

I sent Graeme French ? (British CBR400 'guru') an e-mail about different options that would retain slightly higher rear ride height. He sells suspender set ups with all the ratios calculated correctly - being on a budget I opted to go back to a stock rear shock. Unfortunately it's not adjustable other than preload.

What was funny was that he said he would not be racing on my 'dodgy' set up (CBR600 shock) - it bottomed out a couple of times at Taupo (I know what that 'clunk' was now), but on the whole - I thought I was doing pretty well on it.

Doing even better now I reckon - have got a few 2nd's in postclassic junior and a 7th in F3 at VMCC.......not bad for a 'pig' that is obviously 'nearly buggered' as a couple of you have so callously mentioned. I had to reconsole the poor little baby after those posts.

$2,000 she cost me - and I'm having a ball.

I wouldn't say racing is cheap - but it can be done on a budget and still be fun and competitive.

[FROSTY:Me]

Ok guys by MY doing this thread has gone off subject---Im sorry folks
I'll just add Im happy to admit Im no Suspension GURU --Because i had got myself so totally confused this season I have come to rely on the advice of other people.I Have Huge respect for Roberts knowledge as Ive expressed elsewhere

NOW--back to the pro twins class ------------------------

[Robert Taylor]

Ok guys by MY doing this thread has gone off subject---Im sorry folks
I'll just add Im happy to admit Im no Suspension GURU --Because i had got myself so totally confused this season I have come to rely on the advice of other people.I Have Huge respect for Roberts knowledge as Ive expressed elsewhere

NOW--back to the pro twins class ------------------------

Hey Frosty, dont shoulder all the blame! I did mention beer and politics. If I am wrong in any subsequent posts then I will happily fall on my sword.

Cold hard facts, no bu....it, no ego's.

What do you think of the proposal of a set up school at Taupo? Max 20 participants and not on the same day, merely a costs recoverable exercise.

[Robert Taylor]

You should have seen the set up on my CBR400RR when I bought it. It had a CBR600 shock in it that was too long and it bottomed out on the linkage thingy. Whoever did the mod had ground into the linkage to try and stop it hitting.

I sent Graeme French ? (British CBR400 'guru') an e-mail about different options that would retain slightly higher rear ride height. He sells suspender set ups with all the ratios calculated correctly - being on a budget I opted to go back to a stock rear shock. Unfortunately it's not adjustable other than preload.

What was funny was that he said he would not be racing on my 'dodgy' set up (CBR600 shock) - it bottomed out a couple of times at Taupo (I know what that 'clunk' was now), but on the whole - I thought I was doing pretty well on it.

Doing even better now I reckon - have got a few 2nd's in postclassic junior and a 7th in F3 at VMCC.......not bad for a 'pig' that is obviously 'nearly buggered' as a couple of you have so callously mentioned. I had to reconsole the poor little baby after those posts.

$2,000 she cost me - and I'm having a ball.

I wouldn't say racing is cheap - but it can be done on a budget and still be fun and competitive.

Well thats pretty candid and sincere, good on you. There will be a post about the pitfalls of mixing and matching shocks but you have described it very well so far. I want everyone to know more about these sorts of issues rather than many people frustratingly being left in the dark.

Because of our low income / high tax economy ( call this a political statement if you wish but is irrefutable fact ! ) not everyone can afford the latest bikes and high quality suspension components. I accept that but it frustrates me intensely how poorly people are paid and the ''smoke and mirrors'' that is going on.

So if people with training, great set up knowledge and experience can be forthcoming and helpful then it helps the sport as a whole.

And any resellers of product must be doing the right and ethical thing rather than looking at it as first and foremost a profit motive ( and to hell with the consequences attitude ) This includes private sellers.

If anyone disagrees with that please come forward and say so.

[slowpoke]

Doing even better now I reckon - have got a few 2nd's in postclassic junior and a 7th in F3 at VMCC.......not bad for a 'pig' that is obviously 'nearly buggered' as a couple of you have so callously mentioned. I had to reconsole the poor little baby after those posts.

$2,000 she cost me - and I'm having a ball.

I wouldn't say racing is cheap - but it can be done on a budget and still be fun and competitive.

Deano has nailed it right here: if you want cheap racing there are many and varied options available. He doesn't care that his mighty steed isn't the sharpest tool in the shed, he just rides it like 'Poos is chasing him for some man love and beats far more capable bikes.

Sure, Pro Twins isn't the cheapest class around but is that what it's designed to be? Surely the Clubmans, Buckets, Streetstocks, Post-classic classes already fill that role? Do we really need another lowest common denominator class?

I see the Pro Twins class as a bit more serious than the above mentioned classes and as such allows a few judicious mods to create serious race bikes.

[Possum41]

I believed the whole intention of this class was to provide a semi controlled class between any of the classes mentioned above and 600 super sport or super bike classes.

I think MNZ were trying to provide a "next step up" class for those who were looking at moving on from their current class but didn't have the money or the balls to go straight to F2 or F1.

There is no reason to suggest this class as being expensive. I believe that once you have put the initial cost of preparing the pro twins bike the only major expense should only be tyres, (unless you crash alot). And they should last a well setup bike around 4 to 5 meetings give or take.

And if you don't want to go through the hassle of preparing your own bike then buy someone elses who has already done the work, that should be a bit cheaper.

And if thats still coming out too expensive then you should look at developing your skills as a soccer player or a pro golfer or even a lead guitarist in a rock band.

Strike that comment, i look forward to this class and i'l put myself out there to help anyone develope and prepare their Hyosung GT650's as we have started to manufacture race parts for them and have the only set of fibreglass moulds in the southern hemisphere to date to provide race fairings.

Amen.

[moT]

im just glad the 650s are gonna be out of f3 give us 400s a chance

[GSVR]

im just glad the 650s are gonna be out of f3 give us 400s a chance

You might stand a better chance if you keep up with the current rules.
650s havent been kicked out of F3 and Protwins are legal F3 bikes.

The fastest 400 F3 bikes are actually bored out to 450 as the current rules still allow.

[skelstar]

Great thread guys...learnt a bit about suss stuff and a bit of bitching too. Cheers!