How sad is this Labour Government

[Zed]

does that mean "The End Of The World Is Nigh"?
...

Nah that's at least another 1000 years away, but it'll mean the end of your 'freedom' to a point! All in the name of peace. The NZ government will be a mere puppet on a string...if they aren't already? :sneaky2:

[James Deuce]

When you have seen real prime ministers and people of character such as Maggie Thatcher, Francois Mitterand, Helmut Kohl and the like, you realise how laughable and inexperienced our PM is

Its kind of like rule by opinion rather than anything else.

As an individual - yes I give her credit - as I would anyone that gets themselves into a lead political role (it takes some skill and charisma). But compared with others that do the same job - no.

Yes but unlike the three you mentioned she is at least principled and prepared to take the good with the bad. Mitterand, and Kohl in particular, have been shown to have criminal tendencies and to have told some substantial lies about their past history and personal funds.

I do not agree with a great deal of Labour policy and am personally affronted by Labour's desire to turn our Universities into Business schools, and our Polytech's in sub-standard irrelevant trade schools. However at least they have a plan and a vision for NZ and NZ culture in general, something that has been lacking in NZ politics for a long time. I also agree that it took some fortitude to stand up and say on the world stage that NZ did not support the invasion of Iraq.

[Devil]

A fee collected by a Government, in this case local Government, is the very definition of Tax.

I have just said "meh" out-loud for your benefit.

Its like paying rent. In exchange for the council letting you live there, you pay a fee in which a proportion of it is to cover services rendered by the council.

Would you prefer to have to organise your own waste disposal, sewerage removal and water? (your answer may very well be yes! But its not going to change any time soon).

[Devil]

Hokay, i get ya.. but i just ripped this straight off the council website...

"Rates on a property are a property tax and are calculated on the basis of its capital value (rating valuation)."

This is why i pay more than the guy beside me who hasn't mowed his lawns since Mrs Clark last put out....

Yeah, nasty. But what are you going to do, part of your rates are for services (Blakamin: Standardised for everyone in a particular region), the rest I admit would appear as a tax. But what are they going to do, split the rates bill up? (maybe they do, I dont own a house, are you paying gst on part or all of your rates bill?)

[James Deuce]

I have just said "meh" out-loud for your benefit.

Its like paying rent. In exchange for the council letting you live there, you pay a fee in which a proportion of it is to cover services rendered by the council.

Would you prefer to have to organise your own waste disposal, sewerage removal and water? (your answer may very well be yes! But its not going to change any time soon).

We do organise our own waste disposal, Hutt city council does not pay or provide for it. I am also responsible for water and sewage reticulation on my property. Tell me how rates aren't tax again? Rates are tax. Lower Hutt City council charges me $2400 per year and the only service it provides that is recognisable and useful to me is the library. And I have to pay to use the research services or borrow a documentary DVD that I might want for research. They are using my rates to service interest on large loans for infrastructure projects that provided no direct economic benefit such as the Ewen Bridge, and the 150 million dollar 4 story carpark in Queens Dr that no one uses.

[Devil]

We do organise our own waste disposal, Hutt city council does not pay or provide for it. I am also responsible for water and sewage reticulation on my property. Tell how rates aren't tax again?

Ease up dude.
As I mentioned in my post replying to manuboy and Blakamin, a component of your rates is a (crap, my vocabulary has left for the day) flat fee depending on your region for waste/sanitation rah rah. Sure there are going to be people like you who have to take care of it themselves. Try argue it off your rates bill
And as I admitted before (im trying not to contradict myself at the moment, my mind is on work) there is a tax component.
Do you know if you pay gst on *just* the services flat fee? or the whole thing?

[James Deuce]

Ease up dude.
As I mentioned in my post replying to manuboy and Blakamin, a component of your rates is a (crap, my vocabulary has left for the day) flat fee depending on your region for waste/sanitation rah rah. Sure there are going to be people like you who have to take care of it themselves. Try argue it off your rates bill
And as I admitted before (im trying not to contradict myself at the moment, my mind is on work) there is a tax component.
Do you know if you pay gst on *just* the services flat fee? or the whole thing?

Thanks to a couple of law changes around the last election you can't argue anything off your rates bill. I've updated the previous post also. I most certainly won't ease up either. Why shouldn't I be righteously indignant when I can and have identified that more than 65% of my gross pay is lost to tax in one form or another?

[Devil]

Sneaky bugger, you edited your post.
/me goes to read.

[Devil]

Thanks to a couple of law changes around the last election you can't argue anything off your rates bill. I've updated the previous post also. I most certainly won't ease up either. Why shouldn't I be righteously indignant when I can and have identified that more than 65% of my gross pay is lost to tax in one form or another?

Heh ok, ill state now that I agree with you.
Im just saying how it is at the moment. Im "meh" about it because it doesnt affect me at this stage (not owning a property).
So yeah this is how it is, this is what the councils say it is (classified so apparently there is GST on it, which im trying to find information about) and there isnt much we can do about it.

Channel your irritation towards the local govt.

[James Deuce]

Heh ok, ill state now that I agree with you.
Im just saying how it is at the moment. Im "meh" about it because it doesnt affect me at this stage (not owning a property).
So yeah this is how it is, this is what the councils say it is (classified so apparently there is GST on it, which im trying to find information about) and there isnt much we can do about it.

Channel your irritation towards the local govt.

Thanks for that.

It's central government that legislated GST on rates. Peter Dunn is campaigning on removing GST from rates, but I don't like his politics or associates so I won't vote for him. Local body politicians are a faceless bunch of people who seem to strongly believe in the democratic process as she is wrote in NZ. That is once we're voted in, public pressure and opinion means nothing until the next campaign season.

I've put a lot of effort into trying to understand the various issues, parties, and candidates for the upcoming local body elections, and I have to say that I still have no idea how to vote.

I guess I should just look forward to paying my rates. :/

[Devil]

Thanks for that.

It's central government that legislated GST on rates. Peter Dunn is campaigning on removing GST from rates, but I don't like his politics or associates so I won't vote for him. Local body politicians are a faceless bunch of people who seem to strongly believe in the democratic process as she is wrote in NZ. That is once we're voted in, public pressure and opinion means nothing until the next campaign season.

I've put a lot of effort into trying to understand the various issues, parties, and candidates for the upcoming local body elections, and I have to say that I still have no idea how to vote.

I guess I should just look forward to paying my rates. :/

Yeah I will not be voting this time around in the local body elections. I just dont know who is doing what. They all look like a pack of fucktards ready to go on their crusade against *insert soapbox du jour*. I realise I have no right to complain afterwards by doing this, but I dont really see any results at all from staff turnover. *shrug*.

I will be on the nearest fence if anyone needs me.

[toads]

We do organise our own waste disposal, Hutt city council does not pay or provide for it. I am also responsible for water and sewage reticulation on my property. Tell me how rates aren't tax again? Rates are tax. Lower Hutt City council charges me $2400 per year and the only service it provides that is recognisable and useful to me is the library. And I have to pay to use the research services or borrow a documentary DVD that I might want for research. They are using my rates to service interest on large loans for infrastructure projects that provided no direct economic benefit such as the Ewen Bridge, and the 150 million dollar 4 story carpark in Queens Dr that no one uses.

you know something Jim, I am going to cease complaining about our rates, yours are worse!

[cycosis]

Yes that bitch has to go!But theres no one worthy to replace the maggot,were fucked..

[James Deuce]

you know something Jim, I am going to cease complaining about our rates, yours are worse!

They'll be worse yet when the buggers cotton on to our increased GV. It went up by 40%. I expect to be paying about 3200 soon.

[What?]

That is incorrect.
Rates are not tax. They're a standard fee for services (eg, water, refuse).

As is PAYE. Of course rates are a tax! Get a dictionary and look up the meaning of "tax".
And a tax on a tax is very strange, though not unusual. Look around and you will find numerous instances of it in NZ.