How sad is this Labour Government

[Ghost Lemur]

So all you people moaning about paying too much tax - tell us what you think would be a reasonable amount to pay.

And then sit down and work out how much extra you will have to fork out to pay privately for the health care, education, public amenities and everything else that can't be funded any longer from the much reduced government coffers.

You've got it. They want everything provided for them and yet low taxes. It just doesn't work that way.

BTW Tiggerz - You thought your stand down period was bad, just be thankful it wasn't under a National Government. Oh and you'd be paying a LOT more to study too.

Seriously though. Soon as I'm qualified/experienced, I love to bugger off with family in tow. But it's a hard road finding the perfect country. I like Sweedens society and people, but the weather sucks. Now if they'd drag the damn country into the middle of the Mediterranian I'd be there in a flash.

I'm really getting bored with this country and all the bullshit that goes with it. Moaning/Winjing that would put the poms to shame.

/RANT

[James Deuce]

You've got it. They want everything provided for them and yet low taxes. It just doesn't work that way.

BTW Tiggerz - You thought your stand down period was bad, just be thankful it wasn't under a National Government. Oh and you'd be paying a LOT more to study too.

Seriously though. Soon as I'm qualified/experienced, I love to bugger off with family in tow. But it's a hard road finding the perfect country. I like Sweedens society and people, but the weather sucks. Now if they'd drag the damn country into the middle of the Mediterranian I'd be there in a flash.

I'm really getting bored with this country and all the bullshit that goes with it. Moaning/Winjing that would put the poms to shame.

/RANT

Read my post. I've already said I'd pay more tax IF I get the services to go with it. What do you mean by paying a lot more under National? We haven't had a bipartite political system here for a while. Students paying anything for tertiary education means that the Government in question has completely missed the boat about how to develop an economy that isn't powered by primary produce or natural resource. Read some Richard Florida and tell me he doesn't have a point. The buying power of the average NZer in relation to the rest of the "developed" world is quite pitiful, as is what we regard as an adequate wage.

[Blakamin]

I would happily pay the same PAYE as Norway IF we got the same services as them. They pay 53% income tax. They get cradle to grave health care (including dental) and education, though if they study at an overseas tertiary institution and then stay in that country they have to pay back the loan they got to study there. Sounds great to me. They also get 4 weeks annual leave and 10 sick days. There are Government owned time share holiday homes that anyone can ballot for, and solo parents are actually looked after with a priority on making sure that the children get all they require, rather than demanding that parents work as soon as possible and that they live below the poverty line. The problem is not how much tax we pay. It is the nickel and dime approach to removing money from tax payers and the ever reducing level of services offered in return, despite the current government actually growing in size in terms of employeees and "services".

For once I totally agree with ya Jim2

[TwoSeven]

BTW Tiggerz - You thought your stand down period was bad, just be thankful it wasn't under a National Government. Oh and you'd be paying a LOT more to study too.

It was 2 weeks and I didnt need to be a student because I was too busy working and earning 'loads a money'.

(btw. I'm a tory - Long live Maggie )



I agree with the norway thing. i think everyone would happily pay more tax and the like if they felt they were getting value back. The problem is, there is no perception of getting anything back that you dont have to struggle to get.

[Indiana_Jones]

Ah someone other people who hate labour
Labour blow, they're a bunch of commies, they need out.
But all my leftie mates like labour.......Arggggh

-Indy

[Posh Tourer :P]

Mike - I'd happily do that knowing that I am much better manager of that money than Central Govt. could EVER be.

even with economies of scale?

[Posh Tourer :P]

Ah someone other people who hate labour
Labour blow, they're a bunch of commies, they need out.
But all my leftie mates like labour.......Arggggh

-Indy

Care to elaborate?

Would you prefer your leftie mates to like Act?

[Indiana_Jones]

Care to elaborate?

Would you prefer your leftie mates to like Act?

na, national sounds fairly reasonable

-Indy

[Ghost Lemur]

na, national sounds fairly reasonable

-Indy

I take it then that you've managed the amazing task of having read their unwritten policies already. If not then how do you know their reasonable? Is it the way the look? The sound bites you get from your tv?

I find it interesting looking in from the outside on the absurd sharade that is democracy.
I find it interesting the for the past three elections NZ First has got over 10% of the vote, and within three months of the elections finishing, they slide down to less than five. That means 5% of the population DIDN'T THINK when it came time to vote, and immediately regretted it. A perfect illustration of what happens when you give power to the masses. You discover the masses are a bunch of fucktards who can't see past their noses.

The only people who get into positions of power are those who want positions of power. Doesn't matter if they get their by talking shit to the people, or by putting a bullet in the head of the previous dictator. Least dictators are easier to get rid of. With those sort of systems you either have it fantastic (life under Augustus for instance is widely believed to have been highly prosperous, ecconomically and socially. Even for the nations that came to be part of the empire), or you have a Despot. With The suits you just get a constant stream of gray, neither particularly good, nor particularly bad.

slightly OT: But did anyone see
this article. Looks like the EU election monitors are going to "oversee" the US elections.... bahahahaha

Disclaimer: Not all of the above (if any, is personal belief. Rather a possible point of view put forward for further discussion).

[scumdog]

So all you people moaning about paying too much tax - tell us what you think would be a reasonable amount to pay.

And then sit down and work out how much extra you will have to fork out to pay privately for the health care, education, public amenities and everything else that can't be funded any longer from the much reduced government coffers.

Good troll!!

If all the lazy-arsed pricks that don't want to work as a choice and still hold their hands out for money would just get off their fat lazy good-for-nothing arses and get a wage-earning job our taxes may (a) be less and/or (b) used in more productive ways, i.e. better hospitals.

Has anybody figured out how many people earning wages it takes to support some leech who doesn't want to work 'as a lifestyle choice'? :spudwhat:

[What?]

W're meant to be in a system of user pays right... and the way I look at it - I pay enough tax for 3 or 4 unemployed people.. soooo....

I wanna use 'em!

Paint the house, chop the wood... all those things I don't have time for personally...

Just don't touch the bike, the wife or the kids...

Now there's some sensible talk! With you all the way MDU

[ManDownUnder]

even with economies of scale?

No - I couldn't match with economies of scale, but I think I can nullify that argument with the sheer amount of tax I pay...

and that's BEFORE GST

MDU

[MikeL]

Good troll!!

Well spotted!

Actually it's not entirely a troll, although the reaction was certainly predictable.
Although i'm sure there are inequities, rip-offs and inefficiencies in our current system, I'm a bit sceptical about claims that we would all be happier and better-off if only we paid a lot less tax. The ones that complain the loudest about taxation being theft tend to be the ones who have accountants to minimize their tax obligations...
I agree that there are lazy people bludging off the taxpayer. I just suspect that the extra taxation burden placed on the rest of us may be exaggerated. Have you any idea what reduction in tax you would receive if unemployment and sickness benefit fraud was eliminated? It would be interesting to find out...

[jrandom]

Has anybody figured out how many people earning wages it takes to support some leech who doesn't want to work 'as a lifestyle choice'? :spudwhat:

Let's see. We'll take the average NZ income, figure out how much tax gets paid on it, and set that against the standard unemployment benefit to answer your question.

From the Statistics NZ website, 'average weekly income for people in paid employment' last quarter was $762, or an annual pre-tax income of $39,624. The ird.govt.nz calculator gives weekly PAYE on this as $161.95.

A single adult on the unemployment benefit gets $164.16 a week.

If we make a hand-waving guess that, say, 20% of the tax take is spent on welfare, then you could arguably say that after all other public service costs are covered from income tax, it takes, on average, 5 people working to pay for one adult on the dole.

[Blakamin]

From the Statistics NZ website, 'average weekly income for people in paid employment' last quarter was $762, or an annual pre-tax income of $39,624. The ird.govt.nz calculator gives weekly PAYE on this as $161.95.

Makes me want to find an average job!