Death penalty not justified????

**ManDownUnder** · 27th July 2007, 12:07

Originally Posted by devnull

Now here's a country that has the right idea when dealing with scumbags...

http://www.ziplaw.com/news/archives/001926.htm

He thinks his punishment is inhumane? After raping a 6 year old?
Good on the judge for handing that sentence down - NZ could benefit from similar penalties

Now THAT'S a fitting punishment. Make it a public flogging and invite all everyone the guy respects to be there. Make sure they know all the facts, the findings and what's going to happen.

This needs to be as uncomfortable for him as it can be, a short sharp shock that kickstarts him back onto the right path. Nothing Vigilante about it. Nothing revengful about it, just make it a bloody awful punishment. One he KNOWS will happen again if he earns it, and one he really does NOT want.

**Paul in NZ** · 27th July 2007, 12:27

I’m not sure I support capital Punishment for murder. Murder is usually committed in a moment of passion and death is not a deterrent or even considered at such times. Kidnapping, some rape and assassination etc are carefully considered and are arguably justifying of a death sentence.

One of the problems with debating the death penalty is that it focuses very much on the criminal and their right to life etc and it usually ignores the rights of the victims. Nobody forced these people to act in this fashion; nobody stood over them with a gun and made them brutalize this child. They did it willingly and intentionally and I’ll bet they did it secretly because they knew it was wrong and punishable under the law. They took away every right the victim had and arguably by doing that, they have removed their own rights as well.

The death penalty in cases like this is NOT about revenge, it is not about discouraging similar crimes because frankly I don’t think it will. It is about society saying we value life and you have crossed a line beyond which no civilized being should venture. There is a penalty to pay for this.

I don’t believe the death penalty brutalizes society, television, youtube and other media channels do a far better job but these crimes definitely do brutalize us. These crimes were also witnessed by impressionable minds and society will be paying a price for THAT!

The death penalty will ensure these people never get a chance to harm another child – if there was another option capable of the same performance – I’d listen…

**Ocean1** · 27th July 2007, 14:32

Originally Posted by ManDownUnder

Now THAT'S a fitting punishment. Make it a public flogging and invite all everyone the guy respects to be there. Make sure they know all the facts, the findings and what's going to happen.

This needs to be as uncomfortable for him as it can be, a short sharp shock that kickstarts him back onto the right path. Nothing Vigilante about it. Nothing revengful about it, just make it a bloody awful punishment. One he KNOWS will happen again if he earns it, and one he really does NOT want.

Dude you punish children, not adults. Only with children is the question of whether it’s “fitting” relevant, it’s fitting if it results in better behaviour.

With recidivist criminal adults punishment is retribution, pure and simple. They’ve got the way they are because their behaviour is no longer amenable to correction, for reasons which might be worth studying but have no bearing on a decision on how best to deal with them. The fact that our state system of incarceration falls under the label “Corrections” is a good indication of seriously flawed thinking. It simply doesn’t “correct” them, nor would it no matter how well resourced and targeted it was.

Nor is harsher punishment usually a deterrent for them, so what’s the point?
Just draw a line at a certain level of behaviour and say “At this point we deem you to be a poor investment for us, get out.”

My thinking may be plain straight wrong but it’s based on the observation that the vast majority of males exposed to clearly understood socially positive values and strong roll models turn into good men. Those not so raised not only often don’t but then usually seem beyond saving.

If that’s a reasonable conclusion then the solution seems obvious: Change the way we raise men and remove the failed experiments from our midst. Both require dramatic changes in how we perceive such things and how we set education and social policy.

Any alternative suggestions?

**Animal** · 27th July 2007, 15:11

Originally Posted by sAsLEX

...those put to death, do not commit more crime.

100% agreed.

**tri boy** · 27th July 2007, 15:54

Two years military service between the ages of 18--25.
Corporal punishment returned to secondary and primary schools.
Positive role models developed across the spectrum of soceity.
Prisons run with less fluffiness, and gyms/food choice/various rights revoked.
Encourage personal growth through compulsory youth camps like Te Phoi.
We can shut the gate though some of the horses have bolted, but at least the rest will be saved.

**kro** · 27th July 2007, 16:52

Originally Posted by Grahameeboy

What epidemic? These crimes have been happening through the ages just in a more modern society it has become less acceptable

Crime is escalating in NZ. 20 years ago, a murder way front page news. This is no longer the case. The increased media coverage, although highly sensationalistic, is only increasing, because the frequency of murder is increasing too.

**Hitcher** · 27th July 2007, 16:57

What's wrong with sentencing the offenders to a more sustained and intense version of the cruelty they meted out? i.e. a few spins in a tumble drier and a stint in the ring with a suitably crazed professional wrestler? I'd pay to watch, and to keep a steady supply of $1 coins to keep the drier running...

**Ocean1** · 27th July 2007, 17:14

Originally Posted by Hitcher

What's wrong with sentencing the offenders to a more sustained and intense version of the cruelty they meted out? i.e. a few spins in a tumble drier and a stint in the ring with a suitably crazed professional wrestler? I'd pay to watch, and to keep a steady supply of $1 coins to keep the drier running...

It’s wrong because the punishment is altogether disproportionate to the crime. A mere inhuman mob reprisal unworthy of a modern just society.

The correct response would involve a 150hp wood chipper and a suitably enraged gorilla.

Better let the gorilla go first though eh?

Edit: And for those who looked on and did nothing? That's ONE...

**Fatjim** · 27th July 2007, 18:26

I think you guys need to chill out and let the politicians and Kamatua sort this out.

**Grahameeboy** · 27th July 2007, 18:28

Originally Posted by kro

Crime is escalating in NZ. 20 years ago, a murder way front page news. This is no longer the case. The increased media coverage, although highly sensationalistic, is only increasing, because the frequency of murder is increasing too.

Crime has been escalating for centuries as population increases, not just the last 20 years............

Would you rather have lived in Medieval times or now........just no papers then....

**Ocean1** · 27th July 2007, 18:42

blissfully unaware of the issues...

http://www.poodwaddle.com/worldclock.swf

What do we do about them?

**Fatjim** · 27th July 2007, 18:45

Hey, we've lost 58 species so far today. I wonder if one of them is fat ugly chicks. Again, no offense intended to fat ugly chicks

**Paul in NZ** · 27th July 2007, 21:11

OK - what about this fucktard???

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4143011a11.html

I'm sick of this shit...

**Daffyd** · 27th July 2007, 22:00

Stick, say, ten of these animals on an island or in a compound with enough food and shelter for nine. Soon there will be nine...add another one, there will soon be nine again. Simple, cheap and very effective!

**Chrislost** · 27th July 2007, 22:01

Originally Posted by Paul in NZ

What kind of society stands by and tut tuts without stamping this out! We are prepared to go to war to defend our land and our way of life, we will give our soliders VC's for being heros - I think I'd like to give these pricks AC....

we are unable to go to war to defend ourselves.
we dont nee to anyway with this kinda crap already here