Veggie sex. Oh this orta be good...

[Curious_AJ]

Right. And the most important fact to remember is humans do not require meat to live - never have done, never will do.

Despite decades of propaganda from the meat industries attempting
to brainwash the population to their view (the "science" can be bought - ask any large American Corporation) - and with some degree of success judging by some of the posts here, millions of vegetarians happily walk this planet daily proving the fact mentioned above.

thank you sels1, my thoughts exactly.

[Hitcher]

Right. And the most important fact to remember is humans do not require meat to live - never have done, never will do.

I have no disagreement with that. People are entitled to be "vegetarian". People are also entitled to eat meat. Neither of those propositions are a case of "right" or "wrong". My ire is raised by vegetarians and vegans who use dubious "evidence" to shame meat eaters into seeing the "folly" of their ways.

[Curious_AJ]

umm... thats not what i was trying to do btw... i was just stating how appalling the conditions are for the poor animals... i don't know how people can't feel sad about that...

[Krusti]

I'm an omnivore, I greedily eat anything on the plate in front of me......mmmmmmm food

[SARGE]

i grew up on a farm.. we had all manner of critters .. pigs . horses .. cattle, chickens, etc ..wasnt a meat farm by any means but we lived well on the meat that was produced ( and yes .. i have slaughtered.. sledgehammer to the forehead and its over before the animal hits the ground)

i am also an avid hunter .. deer.. wild razorback pig ..Elk, pheasant, duck..turkey.. bear.. moose.. etc


hunters are some of the finest conservationists on the planet.. we thin the herds to manageable levels so the animals dont outstrip the food and such in a given area ..


when i kill.. either a domestic or feral.. i use all of the animal.. skins, meat, .. i grind the bones and dry the blood for my gardens..i leave the organs and offal for the wolves.. i also gave 30% of the meat of the big kills to the area homeless shelters... not one ounce ever went to waste

only time we had to come to town was to get flour, sugar and coffee... we produced everything ourselves pretty much

Right. And the most important fact to remember is humans do not require meat to live - never have done, never will do.

Despite decades of propaganda from the meat industries attempting
to brainwash the population to their view (the "science" can be bought - ask any large American Corporation) - and with some degree of success judging by some of the posts here, millions of vegetarians happily walk this planet daily proving the fact mentioned above.

i beg to diffr sels ..

look at any herbivore's teeth .. they are flat, meant to grind vegetable matter... then compare to a carnivore's teeth.. sharp and meant to rend flesh... humans have both types ( incisors,, molars canine) and are designed to eat all manners of food

[Curious_AJ]

that I respect... my family does pretty much the same thing. (though i still couldnt stomach it, no matter how humane the killing... I just vomit every time I see anything like that being done.)

good on you Sarge.

and when i say "farms" I mean intensive farms. Those are what I'm heavily against...

[Hitcher]

umm... thats not what i was trying to do btw... i was just stating how appalling the conditions are for the poor animals... i don't know how people can't feel sad about that...

I was about to quietly withdraw from this largely pointless "discussion", but you've done it again. Over-generalising.

What conditions, and what "poor" animals? Yes, I accept that some New Zealand battery hen production systems and pig breeding operations leave much to be desired in terms of animal welfare standards. And the farmers who operate these facilities are upgrading these to meet revised animal welfare codes of practice. Despite that, the health of the animals in such facilities is good and the risk of "diseased meat" entering the human food chain, as you alleged earlier in this thread is negligible. I don't buy into that anthropomorphism thing, in case you hadn't noticed.

The biggest risk to consumers of food (meat or vegies) is hygiene standards, with home kitchens and poor or inadequate food preparation being with worst offenders.

And if it's evidence you want, start here www.nzfsa.govt.nz.

[Curious_AJ]

I've read it .. i gave a book reference earlier...

and yeah, they are poor animals... they deserve better... its not necessarily anthropomorphism.. its just common decency and compassion, which, apparently, you don't seem to feel...

[Krusti]

And don't forget, a good kiwi............eats, roots and leaves.

[sels1]

I have no disagreement with that..

Thats good. So you are saying your previous post:

It has been difficult and nearly impossible to be a "successful" (i.e. alive/healthy) vegetarian or a vegan respectively until comparatively recently in human evolution. Western civilisation has allowed the development of commercial horticulture and the transport of out-of-season produce to all parts of the globe, giving vegos a variety and quality of produce that did not exist in one place as recently as 60 years ago. Vegans had to wait a bit longer for dietary supplements to be invented.

was not your best work???

[SARGE]

The biggest risk to consumers of food (meat or vegies) is hygiene standards, with home kitchens and poor or inadequate food preparation being with worst offenders.

chinese takeaways, Valentine's and burger kings

[canarlee]

The biggest risk to consumers of food (meat or vegies) is hygiene standards, with home kitchens and poor or inadequate food preparation being with worst offenders.

um soz hitcher but im going to dissagree with you on that point!


these animals are contracting these diseases, correct. but to say that these diseases are not affecting us is bullshit.


ok we are not getting the same disease as the animal in question but we ARE becoming immune to antibiotics, which are being pumped into the animal which are then coming to us through the meat (and that has been proven). we are not getting stronger strains of the flu etc (like the gummints would have you believe), we are becoming ammune to the vaccine!





ps, i will still have my steak done "blue" next time i have one!

[Hitcher]

Harry Potter and the Tofu Burger doesn't count as a "book reference".

And I don't think I have posted anything, anywhere, ever that could be misconstrued as me condoning animal abuse or neglect.

Please understand that my comments have nothing to do with you being a vegetarian, unless that is the reason for you posting unsubstantiated twaddle about food animal production systems.

[Curious_AJ]

the book reference, dear darling old man, was THE MEAT BUSINESS, DEVOURING A HUNGRY PLANET: edited by: Geoff Tansey and Joyce D'Silva... shows you havn't actually been reading posts properly...

and no, me being a vegetarian has nothing to do with twaddle... and those are things that i have researched, not just made up...

[Curious_AJ]

oh, and another book to read is, Management and Welfare of Farm Animals, The UFAW handbook, fourth edition.