Slow speed skills

[gatch]

I did a quick search and didn't find exactly what I was after so here goes..

Recently I took possession of a sweet 1990 vfr400, now while it handles beautifully (really..) on the open road, I'm finding the steering is a lot heavier than my old 250 spada at slow speed, ie in town traffic, roundabouts etc. I don't feel 100% confident as to where the limits are. Not to the point where I am uncomfortable riding in town, but to the point where I think I should be consciously trying to upgrade my slow speed skills.

Now when I did my basic skills course, the instructor was talking about something like "counterleaning". Essentially where you lean the bike over but are still sitting upright, does this sound about right ? Or have I got it completely duffed ?

If I'm right than I think I'll be heading out to a car park with some markers for some slalom practice.

SO, pointers anyone ??

edit - p.s I'm not a total n00b, I've been riding bikes for about 9 years, so no lectures.. just real world pointers, please

[MyGSXF:Me]

If I'm right than I think I'll be heading out to a car park with some markers for some slalom practice.

Do that.. tis a good way to get the feel of, & practice on a new bike!

Rock from the hips.. lean your bike in & your body out. Use your body, not just moving the arms.

Experiment. the more you practice, the better you will get

& most importantly.. keep your eyes up on the horizon!

[centaurus]

The way I have been tought and it worked for me (meaning I understood it) was:
When cornering, you can lean with the bike, lean less than the bike or lean more than the bile.
As a general rule, if you are going through a very tight bend at low speeds, you will want to lean less than the bike - leaning the bike makes you take a sharper corner, but going at slow speeds you are not being pushed towards the outside of the bend, so if you want to lean the bike further (to corner sharper) you lean less so you won't fall in the curve.
The faster you go, the more you need to lean ... (I won't relay the rest of it dealing with the leaning with or more than the bike because it's not interesting to our discussion).

Now leaning less than the bike can mean that you still lean but not as much as the bike or that you stand up straight and lean only the bike.

There are some extreme case when you lean the other way, but that's usually only when violently contersteering (no actual cornering - the left turn is compensated by a following right turn so at the end you are facing in the same direction).

This is the theory. In practice, I found that depending on the bike (seating position, weight, etc...) you find yourself leaning more or less compared to the bike. It's a matter or trying until you find the right angle - and believe me, when you have reached the right angle for that corner you will know it - you won't need anybody to tell you you've got it right. If you are not at the right angle, it will feel somehow ackward or just not 100% natural and free flowing.

[Ender EnZed]

Now when I did my basic skills course, the instructor was talking about something like "counterleaning". Essentially where you lean the bike over but are still sitting upright, does this sound about right ? Or have I got it completely duffed ?

It works alright at very low speed in a carpark but by fairly modest roundabout speed its the opposite of what you want to be doing.(probably needless to say)

I think the basic idea is shift your weight (self) opposite to the direction you're trying to turn (lean) so that the bike doesn't drop to the ground. I'm by no means 100% on the physics of it but it seems to work. You can try hanging off the bike in an approximately striaght line first and you'll find that the rest of the bike is more or less taking care of itself, leaning as far as you're hanging off the other side (relative to the weights) provided you're still pointing it straight with the handle bars.

I doubt I've shed too much light here but my advice is: get out to an empty carpark and give it a try.

[george formby]

When I do a u'ie or a slow full lock maneuvre it's all about turning the handle bars & I often end up leaning the opposite way to the bike, pushing it down with my hips & balancing it with my head / upper torso weight. In reality, all this does is keep the c of g in the same place. Sooooo, it's finding the balance & using positive throttle to keep the bike moving. I try to keep my feet on the pegs & not tip toe the bike about but if I shut off the throttle when I bottle out the bike starts to drop & the foot shoots out, not cool but it's good practice. We need some gymkhanas to practice this stuff.

[quickbuck]

Righto... When it comes to riding the VFR's to the end of the street and back before putting them away, I gotta say they are the hardest of the 72 bikes in stock to master low speed maneuvering on!
This is mainly due to the fact that 1st gear goes to 110km/hr!!!

Now, best advice is when doing a full lock turn, ensure your bars are set up comfortably... and there isn't much room for your hands...

When turning the bike look ALL THE WAY over your shoulder until you are looking at the tail of the bike.

Yes, practice a bit in a quiet street, or car park if you can.

Keep your head and eyes up, and look as far into the distance as you possibly can for any time you are maneuvering your bike.

Stay Upright.

[CookMySock]

You're just getting used to a new bike. Don't sweat it.

Yes, you can lean the opposite way in slow corners or U turns, so the bike doesn't carry so much lean. Just shift your arse in the opposite direction of the corner before you begin your turn. I don't think it will help you feel any better though.

Steve

[bogan]

I went out with mowgli and road king a few weeks ago and did some basic handling skills stuff, the weave, stoping etc. Chuck a post in the manawatu rant and rave, or weekend ride threads thread, Im sure therel be some takers to come give you pointers, i'll be happy too if im not busy. We found that my 250 handled far better at low speeds than the speed four, or vfr750.

[Ragingrob]

Yep they can be pretty awkward at low speeds sometimes. Trying to keep the weight off the handlebars can be an option at very low speeds, remember that you'll want to be turning the handlebars as opposed to merely countersteering, and turning handlebars is harder when there is more weight on them so try to sit up a bit at lower speeds.

But yep, new bikes take some getting used to for sure!

[retro asian]

Counter leaning was the first thing l got taught at NASS (along with shifting your bum) A very helpful skill for cruiser riders, but I guess good for everyone too!