Dating

[ManDownUnder]

Aaaa yes. NZ where men are men but only if the State allows them to be, and they have permission from their significant other.

A problem I see is that men in NZ do not know how to be themselves. Joni alluded to the struggle guys have being what society expects of them (the manly man), what the State expects of them (androgeny please), what the feminist norms dictate (the female way is the right way - let's take a look at communication style shall we), and what those men actually want to be - i.e. the person they really are.

All of the above require men to behave in a different manner. So... on a date does a guy open a door for a woman or not? Does he pay the bill? Does he buy her drinks? Does he make the first move? Should he even have the audacity to ask a woman out. I mean for the last 500+ years it's been a man's world. Now it's time for the women to have their world right?

Errrr no.

Men need to be able to stand up and be themselves. Be men, be strong, fight for the honour of themselves and their families. Stand up in the defence of others etc.

The problem is we're
1) Not allowed to do those things for fear of pro/persecution
2) Not able to do those things for the lack of adequate role models

Boys are raised in a predominantly female world
0 - 4 is Home with mum or at daycare
5 to 13 Primary and Intermediate school
14+ the formative years are over.

When boys get boistrous they get told off for it by women - who (with the greatest of respect) understand the effects of testosterone about as much as I can relate to Period Pain and PMS.

What chance have the boys got, and now - we're getting the confusion Kitty mentioned.

Dating? What are the rules? From the guys sides I can honestly answer "fucked if I know"!. Thanks to my father (a good man) and an uncle (another significantly good male influence) I personally have my own rules to live by.

I have to.

[avgas]

Bring back the Cowboys I say...Real men, with a strong spine and a moral attitude to boot.

They are still there, just these days they wear pink shirts and get acting roles.

[avgas]

What im hearing is that women want to be held with on hand and slapped with another.
Men are simple, sit down, shut the f up, and hang on for the ride.

[Drew]

At the risk of being flamed.... I have noticed that part of the problem is the "Kiwi bloke" syndrome... they are busy being a mans man and prooving to the world that that is what they are... that all else is lost. Its sad because kiwi guys do have alot to offer, but feel they will be "soft cocks" if they do offer it.

edit: Oh and I personally find that boring...

Not the way I see it here, I am percieved as the typical Kiwi bloke by most, but tell the world I love my lady, and am not ashamed to show affection, and do things for her.

The dating scene in New Zealand does not exist, and hinders many people from other lands in finding a mate.

Here, we do it different like. Instead of arranging dates, we usually start a romantic relationship from an existing friendship, or with someone we already know to some degree. It has a couple of pit falls, first, we miss out on the dating, (Which can be a lot of fun) and go straight to full on couple status, and that creates the second down side, in that when it doesn't work out, one party is usually very hurt by it.

Over seas, it is totally acceptable to date more than one person, right up untill one of those dates is consumated physically, at which point it's commonly reffered to as going steady. they do it more progressively, we just leap in.

Having said that, the women I've spoken to about this think it would be perfectly OK for a guy to come over in a cafe, (or some other random local), and introduce himself. If they hit it off, phone numbers would be swapped and so on, and so forth.



If ya want the system changed girls, go out there and do it, it aint a law.

[terbang]

At the risk of being flamed.... I have noticed that part of the problem is the "Kiwi bloke" syndrome... they are busy being a mans man and prooving to the world that that is what they are... that all else is lost. Its sad because kiwi guys do have alot to offer, but feel they will be "soft cocks" if they do offer it.

edit: Oh and I personally find that boring...

Yeah, true in many respects. But it goes both ways. I found, and still observe (I crew with many young Kiwi girls), that many kiwi women struggle to step up to the plate. They seem too self absorbed and perhaps a bit too material with their views and can appear above us mere males expecting us to chase them. The two most influencial women (apart from mother) in my life were an American and a Pom. I married the Pom. Both of these foriegn girls came into my life with a view of an 'even stake' and didn't view sex as a tool or a favour to gain my attention and dated me as much as I dated them. They also didn't get as pissed as the kiwi girls did. Though I guess I am not really a rugby racing and beer sort of guy, which also didn't apeal to either of the loves of my life.

[Trudes]

Geeze, what do ya have to do to get a root around here?!!

[Joni]

Yeah, true in many respects. But it goes both ways. I found, and still observe (I crew with many young Kiwi girls), that many kiwi women struggle to step up to the plate. They seem too self absorbed and perhaps a bit too material with their views and can appear above us mere males expecting us to chase them. The two most influencial women (apart from mother) in my life were an American and a Pom. I married the Pom. Both of these foriegn girls came into my life with a view of an 'even stake' and didn't view sex as a tool or a favour to gain my attention. They also didn't get as pissed as the kiwi girls did.

Well said... sadly I have heard the same thing from many kiwi men.

I suppose Im glad to fall into the "foreign girl" category then... because I do believe in "even/equal stakes"

[jrandom]

A sure sign that things wont work out well with a man is when you ask if he is married and he lies and says he's seperated! Should run for the hills at that point. Then he buys you the world and tells you he loves you and you're worth it and he has kicked his wife out for you....BUT....you have to stop smoking, change your views on everything and think more like him otherwise you can just fuck off and never contact him again. Oh and then he wants everything he bought for you back again.

There's usually two sides to that story, sister...

[Joni]

I am percieved as the typical Kiwi bloke by most, but tell the world I love my lady, and am not ashamed to show affection, and do things for her.

Drew I dont think any of the "Mair" brothers can be considered typical kiwi men... the ones I have met are all pretty special... especially that trashy one!

[Drew]

Drew I dont think any of the "Mair" brothers can be considered typical kiwi men... the ones I have met are all pretty special... especially that trashy one!

Not sure how to take that...

I'm not retarded, I'm a very special boy???

[Joni]

I'm not retarded, I'm a very special boy???

you know what I mean.... special as in damn good!

[Goblin]

There's usually two sides to that story, sister...

How silly of me. I knew honesty was too much to ask for.

[Sanx]

Drew I dont think any of the "Mair" brothers can be considered typical kiwi men... the ones I have met are all pretty special... especially that trashy one!

The two Mair brothers that post on KB do form part of the very small club of people who can form sentences correctly, which makes both of them OK in my book. I would say they're 'stalwarts', but someone might think I'm taking the piss.

[SlashWylde]

I always thought its between people who are commited to each other and love each other
not just who care about eachother.

....I think i'm getting old

Ok, point of distiction then: Lovemaking happens between two people who love each other.

What I'm saying is that I've had good sex with someone I liked and cared about early on in a relationship. however I value lovemaking in the context of a loving committed relationship more.

[Chickadee]

Nice to know there's some good values out there still