Starter problem? Hmmm...

[750Y]

Hey all,
I have a problem that my quad won't start by the start button.(never did but i'm sick of kicking it now).
If I bypass the solenoid, by connecting the positive starter motor feed straight to the battery, the bike starts up good
the only question i'm not sure of is whether the issue is with the starter button & wire to the solenoid OR..
if it's the starter solenoid itself.
One possible clue is that when the lights are on & i push the starter button, the lights dim slightly & so does the neutral indicator on the dash. It seems to me that that is indicating some sort of current draw from the battery so i'm hoping that means the starter button & wiring is ok?
I think my logic is ok but can anyone shed some light on this for me please?
any replies much appreciated..
cheers.

[ahamay]

Easy test if you have a test light handy. You will have the main battery lead to the solinoid and then the one to the starter motor. There will also be proberbly 2 smaller wires. These will be from the starter button. Use the test light to see if there is power to one of the smaller wires when you press the start button. If so, chances are high it is the solinoid itself. Check again at the side of the solinoid going to the starter, this should liven up when the starter is pushed.
Bit long winded but hope it makes sense

[750Y]

nice one,
Am i right in thinking the starter solenoid is just a fancy switch that engages when the starter button is pushed, then goes back to it's natural 'off' position after the start button is relased?
I haven't got a test light, but I do have a multi meter, although i couldn't figure out where to point it without splicing the wiring as the 2 wires You referred to are resin-ed into the solenoid.
I will try the test on the starter side solenoid post.
thanks for Your help bud.

[davereid]

Yes, the solenoid is a relay designed to carry 100 or more amps. Generally it will have two very large terminals, one of which has a large cable going to the battery, and the other to the starter motor. There are also one (or sometimes two) smaller wires.

The smaller wire comes from the "start" button, and should go "live" when you push the button. If it doesn't your problem is the starter switch, or maybe an interlock - some automatics need a brake applied before they crank, or bike must be in neutral etc.

If the solenoid is livened when you push the button, but it does not engage it is faulty.

(I understand you can crank and start the engine OK by howiring the battery to the starter, so they must be OK)

[750Y]

cheers guys, i just went out to the shed & "starter side" solenoid post does not liven up when the start button is pressed.
i'm thinking at this point it is toast & i need to go shopping for a new one.
muchos gracias for the help guys.

[bimotabob]

cheers guys, i just went out to the shed & "starter side" solenoid post does not liven up when the start button is pressed.
i'm thinking at this point it is toast & i need to go shopping for a new one.
muchos gracias for the help guys.

Hey before you do that:

Not all bikes liven the wire to the soleniod, some earth it!
If it earths it like my FZR there will be a link from the heavy always live
terminal to one of the small energizing terminals.
Is the quad a Suzuki?
Starter soleniods commonly give trouble with quads as they do a lot of stop starts.

Regards

[Pancakes]

If a positve lead to the + terminal starts it then it must be + start not earth but good point. I would just run new cables from the battery to the starter thru an appropriate amperage relay and (assuming the wires fron the started button still give a current on demand) use the starter button wires as the switch sense for the relay. In the time it might take to find the issue you have a new, reliable set-up!

Don't forget to fuse it and tape a spare fuse to the new cable just in case.

[bimotabob]

If a positve lead to the + terminal starts it then it must be + start not earth but good point. I would just run new cables from the battery to the starter thru an appropriate amperage relay and (assuming the wires fron the started button still give a current on demand) use the starter button wires as the switch sense for the relay. In the time it might take to find the issue you have a new, reliable set-up!

Don't forget to fuse it and tape a spare fuse to the new cable just in case.

Sorry I wasn't clear enough, the energizing wire to the starter switch isn't always fed +12v but can be negative switched - the main heavy wire will be live of coarse.
If it it wired like this there need only be one small wire from the solenoid as a separate earth is not needed - However two wires are present here he tells us. Either way all is needed here is to link a 12v bulb across the two disconnected activating wires and hit the starter button to check the circuit.
Sounds like soleniod though - unless there is a large voltage drop in the circuit.
Regards

[smudge]

I am not familiar with the bike (whatever it is) but as a sparky it sounds like it is the solenoid. The push button must be functioning to a fashion at least given the symptoms yopu describe. One thing to remember when dealing with low voltages and high currents is that it takes very little resistance in a circuit to upset things by causing a large voltage drop. Go buy yourself a cheapie digital multi meter (or borrow one), use it as a volt meter and test if there is 12v at the starter when the button is pushed. If there is only say 7 or 8 volts test the volt drop across all the connections from the battery post to the starter and work your way back from the battery post right up to the lug connected to the battery post. You need to do this while the button is pushed, any resistance will show as a voltage. This test will only show up under a high load and means nothing if there is no load. It is way easier to do than to describe! But it is the ultimate way to test high load circuits and it is surprising how often you will find a fault like this.

[750Y]

appreciate all the helpful replies guys.
sorry, the quad is a honda trx300 (pretty common) probably a mid 90's model by the looks.
I haven't bought a new solenoid yet so will try to perform a few of the additional checks first with my cheapo multi meter.
great suggestion about making up a new circuit with an appropriate relay etc but seriosuly, i wouldn't know where to start. i'd probably end up blowing something up. anyways the pressure is on now from the missus who wants to do the lambing beats, but isn't strong enough to kick it.
cheers fellas.

[davereid]

If you can start it using a screwdriver across the solenoid terminals just keep doing that until you have time to sort it out properly. PM me if you need extra help one you have a bit of spare time.

[bimotabob]

Hi

Well let us know later when it's fixed - always good to know how people get on.
I used to sell heaps of solenoids to farmers due to all the stop starts.
TRX's I have been advised are the best quad around.

All good
Regards

[Pancakes]

A new loom really isn't as hard as it sounds.

Here's one I made for a headlight. Just power, switch and connectors for the starter in your case. If you use the right amperage relay and fuse it'll be mint as. The pictures are the same thing but one is taped up. You'll only need one relay too.

[Pancakes]

forgot to add pics

it won't let me cos they are already here http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...ad.php?t=51912

from post #10 on

[750Y]

well it turns out after all that it's actually low voltage from the switch to the energizing lead.
even tho it looked ok with the test light, there is some issue between the button & the starter wire where it meets the solenoid. since it's a mission to strip back all the wiring I'm just gonna bypass it by putting in a new switch with a direct feed from the battery to the starter solenoid.
will update when it's done.
cheers
OK so this is the final update:
i installed a universal starter solenoid from supacheap $29(~$85~ for a universal bike one from bike shop). Also installed a Momentary on switch from supacheap($20) below the seat on the rear guard. wired it all up direct from the battery via the switch to the solenoid.
easy job & she's all good.
cheers again for the help guys.
later 8-)