Pakeha

[hXc]

I was born in New Caledonia, where there are different terms for the European Caledonian (freshly moved from France to NC), for the white Caledonian (derived from the first convicts sent on the island), and another again for the native New Caledonian...

Like the word Canaque. Was first used to indigenous inhabitants of the South Pacific Ocean, including the Melanesian native inhabitants of New Caledonia (IE, non-Polynesian). But now it's derogatory. Huh?

Sounds like the word nigger to me. Nigger came from Negroid, which is one of the three races in this world; Mongoloid, Caucasian, and Negroid. It is what they are! How is it right for a NIGGER to call another of his type a NIGGER, but not right for me to call them a NIGGER?! And this is considering the fact that I myself am part Negro.

I would have thought hearing the term "European" or "Caucasion" used daily on TV would cause more offence.

European describes place of origin. Caucasian describes race.
A European is someone who was born in Europe, or of European decent.
A Caucasian is ANYONE who is white.


People take offence to all kinds of words without actually knowing what they originally meant. I personally don't like being called Pakeha, as I'm not a settler or foreigner to this land. I was born here, therefore, I am a New Zealander, who happens to be white. Like an American, who happens to be white. No difference. You'll always find people who take offence at any number of words. If you attempt to only use words that will be completely acceptable to everyone, you may very likely find that you possess about the same vocabulary as, say, a mollusk.

People need to grow up really. Pakeha is derogatory.
Nigger/Negro is not. Nor is Asian or Caucasian.

Why? Pakeha was a name given to the white settlers of New Zealand (Caucasians), that the Maori's (Negroid - some say Mongoloid, but we'll leave that out for now) initially ate. It was used because they didn't have another word for 'us'. Now most Maori's quite happily use English as their first language, and play Caucasian sports etc, but still wish to call 'us' a derogatory term that was used a couple of hundred years ago. And we can't even call them what they are?!

[Joni]

A few months after I arrived in NZ, I had to fill in a few forms for something... I remember being dumbfounded by the question race? Maori, Pakeha etc etc or other.

Now coming from a country where is now not acceptable to class people by the race they were born in - I remember thinking Hmmf, thats damn rude... so I said "other" when speciying what other I said "South African" - as if thats a race (no smart comments please!)

Anyway excuse the babble... surely race does not matter, you are a Kiwi, end of story... I am a Saffa living in NZ end of story.

Maybe Im too simplistic.

[Ocean1]

What i find utterly frustrating, is that we all have various ancestry, making us all a "melting pot" of the races...

Why do we keep on wanting to seclude ourselves as of such or such race...

Call me New Age, but I got all sorts of bloodlines in my veins, and I'm very proud of all of them.

Well New Age, you're perfectly correct. In fact like everyone else you probably only THINK you know most of the last several generations of family history. I understand some 5 - 6% of pregnancies are attributable to someone other than the lawful husband. That means there's a better than average chance that you aren't in fact descended from your great grandparents.

What people identify with, (in an attempt to reinforce a sense of belonging) is CULTURAL descendancy. That's fine, just understand that the same thing applies: you ain't what you believe, no matter how "pure" you think your liniage. I respectfully suggest "Unknown" should be introduced to all census forms. Until then I'll use "Other".

[BuFfY]

Well New Age, you're perfectly correct. In fact like everyone else you probably only THINK you know most of the last several generations of family history. I understand some 5 - 6% of pregnancies are attributable to someone other than the lawful husband. That means there's a better than average chance that you aren't in fact descended from your great grandparents.

What people identify with, (in an attempt to reinforce a sense of belonging) is CULTURAL descendancy. That's fine, just understand that the same thing applies: you ain't what you believe, no matter how "pure" you think your liniage.

Yeah you are right there. My dad was adopted yet I have been bought up to identify with his adopted family and their history. My Poppa wrote a book on my family history which is what I base my history on. My birth grandma (who we call Auntie Paula) I don't know too much about and I don't know anything about Dad's birth Dad.

[007XX]

Like the word Canaque. Was first used to indigenous inhabitants of the South Pacific Ocean, including the Melanesian native inhabitants of New Caledonia (IE, non-Polynesian). But now it's derogatory. Huh?

That's the one...the urban legend is that it means "ears eaters", due to a popular belief that the first emigrants got attacked and eaten, whith their ears being removed first...
And yes, the native of New Caledonia used to find it very insulting, but now have made it part of their "cultural identity", brandishing it as a coat of armor...

Any similarities with the loss of meaning behind the Tanga Tawhenua title?

And this is considering the fact that I myself am part Negro.

Same here...My great, great grandmother was as black as the ace of spade...and yet, I am as white as milk with blue eyes!

Go the genetic mix up...

[Joni]

Go the genetic mix up...

Pretty much me too!

[hXc]

That's the one...the urban legend is that it means "ears eaters", due to a popular belief that the first emigrants got attacked and eaten, whith their ears being removed first...
And yes, the native of New Caledonia used to find it very insulting, but now have made it part of their "cultural identity", brandishing it as a coat of armor...

Thought that it was still offensive. Was told by locals and our french teacher not to say it. Even the host family we stayed with never used it. Pretty much compares to Nigger here. Say it to a black person (which is what they are!) and get the bash.

Same here...My great, great grandmother was as black as the ace of spade...and yet, I am as white as milk with blue eyes!

Go the genetic mix up...

My father is fairly black, yet I am white with blonde hair and grey eyes.

[Hitcher]

The whole point of being an educator, and a good one, is to allow children to make up their own minds about the issues they face. What they believe should not be criticized.

That's an interesting interpretation. Whatever happened to fact-based learning? If a child decides that the sun revolves around the earth, or that the earth is flat, or that a balanced diet comprises equal amounts of hard-boiled eggs and celery, then an "educator's" work is done? Surely not...

[Whoops, I see that this discussion is already well advanced. But I'm still spoiling for a scrap with any liberal, left-wing educators who're up for it]

[Ocean1]

Like the word Canaque. Was first used to indigenous inhabitants of the South Pacific Ocean, including the Melanesian native inhabitants of New Caledonia (IE, non-Polynesian). But now it's derogatory. Huh?

That's the one...the urban legend is that it means "ears eaters", due to a popular belief that the first emigrants got attacked and eaten, whith their ears being removed first...

Now that's inneresting, apparently Tongans had a taste for ear soup, the ears having been removed from the slower opponents in battle.

[Hitcher]

What about Ehore?

Winnie The Pooh's offsider?

[hXc]

That's an interesting interpretation. Whatever happened to fact-based learning? If a child decides that the sun revolves around the earth, or that the earth is flat, or that a balanced diet comprises equal amounts of hard-boiled eggs and celery, then an "educator's" work is done? Surely not...

Ah, but that is not a belief system. It is fact that those are incorrect.
Me believing the moon is cheese and my teacher telling me wrong, is the educator doing their work.
Me believing that God is our Saviour and Jesus died on the cross for my sins and my teacher telling me wrong, is the educator being a plonker.

I may be wrong about God and Jesus etc, but it's what I believe. There is NOTHING to tell me that believing or not believing is correct or incorrect.

(Not saying that I believe either of those.)

[Phurrball]

Interesting thing etymology.

People will cling to all sorts of debunked myths to justify their viewpoint.

I need not say more, suffice to say that scholarly opinion is in line with the information presented in Wikipedia [I had this discussion with a Maori Studies academic some time ago - and yes, he was Pakeha]

I for one am proud to be Pakeha and Tangata Tiriti. Anyone can be a 'white NZer' even foreigners that have settled on these shores quite recently.

To be Pakeha Tangata Tiriti is a special status, unique to non-Maori New Zealanders in recognition of our founding document (and the reason all us non-Maori are LEGALLY here.) This status belongs to no other country, and is (or ought to be) a point of difference and pride.

Whatever its origins, Pakeha has become normal usage to describe a NZer of roughly european ancestry. It's not offensive (even if the only way you can possibly see it as such is by extensive usage and adoption, like say 'bugger'. There is more to it than that, as it never was offensive)

Those that seek to define it as offensive merely seek greivance and an axe to grind - are you really any better that Maori overreaching in their claims to find greivance where there is none?

[007XX]

Well New Age, you're perfectly correct. In fact like everyone else you probably only THINK you know most of the last several generations of family history. I understand some 5 - 6% of pregnancies are attributable to someone other than the lawful husband. That means there's a better than average chance that you aren't in fact descended from your great grandparents.

What people identify with, (in an attempt to reinforce a sense of belonging) is CULTURAL descendancy. That's fine, just understand that the same thing applies: you ain't what you believe, no matter how "pure" you think your liniage. I respectfully suggest "Unknown" should be introduced to all census forms. Until then I'll use "Other".

The only misconception I'm frightened of is that people still think that a "pure" lineage exists, and that it is a better way to be...

I strongly believe I am an alien anyway...

Pretty much me too!

heck yeah...and it makes us stronger as a race...the mixing of genetic pools can only strengthen the immuno defences by intermingling the different attributes of each race.

A "pure" blood line is in effect a dying one, or at least an impoverished one genetically speaking.

Thought that it was still offensive. Was told by locals and our french teacher not to say it. Even the host family we stayed with never used it. Pretty much compares to Nigger here. Say it to a black person (which is what they are!) and get the bash.

My father is fairly black, yet I am white with blonde hair and grey eyes.

Admitedly, I have not been there for a few years...not sure about the up to date status of it to be honnest.

The interesting bit about your lineage, is that in maybe 4 generations, one of your descendant may inherit the full attributes of your father's genetical makeup, regardless of what the parents look like...

[Sniper]

Winnie The Pooh's offsider?

I thought of that. But not many these days know who Eeyore is so I presumed it was either, email sex or and "Hore" you could book on the internet



Yes, Sad, I know

[hXc]

To be Pakeha Tangata Tiriti is a special status, unique to non-Maori New Zealanders in recognition of our founding document (and the reason all us non-Maori are LEGALLY here.) This status belongs to no other country, and is (or ought to be) a point of difference and pride.

That's political correctness at it's finest. We are all New Zealanders. We are made up of many different races here, and maori is just one of those. You could never be a non-'Pakeha' New Zealander, could you?