Kill the Bill

[Grahameeboy]

You're kidding right?

80% of people opposed Bradford's bill. Over the last 12 months, a record number of people have voted with their feet and left NZ.

This current bill is gagging free speech, which is why people are getting pissed off. We want to live in a democracy - not just use a democratic electoral process once every 3 years.

The whole left-wing bullshit spin on everything is getting ridiculous, from crime rates spiraling out of control, skilled workers queuing up to leave, to exploding welfare dependency... there always seems to be some form of "aren't we doing well, the arguments against us are all wrong" message.

And does 80% make the Bill wrong? Maybe the 20% are the more intelligent ones who understand the reality not just the fantasy and don't allow the media drive the paranoia.

[MisterD]

Yep and those that opposed Bradford's Bill had no idea what it was about. That misconception was driven by the new right.

Bullshit. The opponents of that bill claimed that it would criminalise ordinary parents. SB and HC both refuted that....but then after CYFS were called because a school kid told her teacher that she had been smacked SB says "This shows the bill is working".

Who was deliberately misleading the voting public?

[MisterD]

This is typical of the selective references that those that espouse your views take when denigrating Labour. The only Party that did not break the law on this issue was the Progressives. In other words National was as guilty as Labour on this and to suggest otherwise as you have done does your credibility no service at all.

That is the typical selective pro-Labour response...National were only found to have broken the rules at a couple of individual constituencies. There was no problem with their central campaign. Is that a systematic rort of the public purse as was the Labour campaign?

[Skyryder]

That is the typical selective pro-Labour response...National were only found to have broken the rules at a couple of individual constituencies. There was no problem with their central campaign. Is that a systematic rort of the public purse as was the Labour campaign?

Stealing is stealing. The amount or how often in this case is irrelevent. National have taken the moral high ground on this when they have no right to be there..........period.

Think of it this way.........if some one stole your bike would you feel any different if yours was their first or the last of many thefts??

Skyryder

[Indiana_Jones]

And does 80% make the Bill wrong? Maybe the 20% are the more intelligent ones who understand the reality not just the fantasy and don't allow the media drive the paranoia.

But we live in a 'democracy', if most of the people agree or disagree on something, then one would go with that.

-Indy

[Hitcher]

But we live in a 'democracy', if most of the people agree or disagree on something, then one would go with that.

That could be true if the proposition in question had been put to the electorate i.e. us voters, rather than being something that the Gummint decided off its own bat to be a good idea.

Remember that nobody voted for this Government and it therefore has no mandate to do this sort of constitutionally important stuff without consultation or a vote from New Zealand's voters.

[Indiana_Jones]

That could be true if the proposition in question had been put to the electorate i.e. us voters, rather than being something that the Gummint decided off its own bat to be a good idea.

Remember that nobody voted for this Government and it therefore has no mandate to do this sort of constitutionally important stuff without consultation or a vote from New Zealand's voters.

This is true.

-Indy

[Hitcher]

This is true.

Goodness me, that was easy.

[Indiana_Jones]

Goodness me, that was easy.

lol, I didn't disagree in the first place

-Indy

[The Pastor]

I dont know much about the bill, but it have the hearlad the shits a couple days back.

[Grahameeboy]

But we live in a 'democracy', if most of the people agree or disagree on something, then one would go with that.

-Indy

I know but would you want things run by the 80% who are ill informed and democracy is at election times when we chose the Govt.

[Grahameeboy]

That could be true if the proposition in question had been put to the electorate i.e. us voters, rather than being something that the Gummint decided off its own bat to be a good idea.

Remember that nobody voted for this Government and it therefore has no mandate to do this sort of constitutionally important stuff without consultation or a vote from New Zealand's voters.

I know what you mean, however, there is a danger if the Govt asks us first.

The Govt is voted (and okay there is some debate) to make decisions for us.

Take the Anti-Smacking Bill. If the voters had a poll, of course they would not vote for it because they are worried about the implications even though in reality it may only affect 10% of the population and more importantly protect our kids.

Since the Bill was passed how much of an impact has it had on NZ. Not a lot.

If a Bill was passed that meant we had to be in bed by 10 then that would be different.

This Election Bill doesn't really only seems to have an impact in our minds and that in reality it will not have a huge impact in practice.

Now I don't vote. That is my choice. Even if a Bill was passed that made it illegal not to vote, I would still have a choice, unlikely I would be prosecuted and if I had to vote it would not be the end of the world.

Sometimes I think we need to chill a bit.

[devnull]

I know but would you want things run by the 80% who are ill informed and democracy is at election times when we chose the Govt.

Ill informed? Thats bullshit.

Many who spoke out had done their homework... and cited the problems in Sweden (Bradford's poster child), the ridiculous assumptions she made (including the quoting of erroneous figures directly from Joan Durrant's paper, which had already been widely discredited in the scientific community), mountains of psych research that showed the opposite of what the govt preached....

What you seem to be supporting is a Marxist-type view that democracy is a thing to be feared, and that an elite few should dictate all aspects of life to the masses. And the people should just shut up and do as they're told because "we know best"

That particular bill had nothing to do with protecting kids, and everything to do with controlling the population through their kids. It's an effective control mechanism that's been used in both Russia and Germany in the past...

Chester Barrows submission was a superb piece of legislation that really did address the issue, but it didn't suit the agenda that certain people had...

[Grahameeboy]

Ill informed? Thats bullshit.

Many who spoke out had done their homework... and cited the problems in Sweden (Bradford's poster child), the ridiculous assumptions she made (including the quoting of erroneous figures directly from Joan Durrant's paper, which had already been widely discredited in the scientific community), mountains of psych research that showed the opposite of what the govt preached....

What you seem to be supporting is a Marxist-type view that democracy is a thing to be feared, and that an elite few should dictate all aspects of life to the masses. And the people should just shut up and do as they're told because "we know best"

That particular bill had nothing to do with protecting kids, and everything to do with controlling the population through their kids. It's an effective control mechanism that's been used in both Russia and Germany in the past...

Chester Barrows submission was a superb piece of legislation that really did address the issue, but it didn't suit the agenda that certain people had...

Bullshit to you perhaps.

I do not fear democracy so no idea why you think I support a Marxist view. I think we get paranoid and the fear comes from within.

We can compare with other Nations, however, we have our own identity and specific problems......do Sweden have Maori issues for eg.

I find it strange that a Nation like NZ with a population of 4million in a country marginally bigger that the UK with almost 60million people spends so much time moaning about that we are controlled and that the Anti-Smacking Bill was not about the kids but is about controlling us....geeze you guys need to chill.........maybe I am the only one who doesn't feel controlled eh.

And I thought POMs were the whingers.

Regardless of your view of religion, I am glad I have my Faith......so much easier ya know and I can enjoy life.

[Finn]

We can compare with other Nations, however, we have our own identity and specific problems......do Sweden have Maori issues for eg.

Actually they do. When I lived in Stockholm there was this Maori we called Geoff the Maori. He was married to a Swedish girl who hated him but he was the sperm donor of her children. He was on welfare and was always drunk. The Australian pub across the road from my apartment banned him. He was a real problem.

However, Scandinavia does have its own indigenous people - the Sami's. They are whities and don't cause a lot of problems. Traditionally, the Sami had a variety of livelihoods; fishing on the coast and in the inland, trapping animals for fur, sheep herding, etc - this all sounds familiar... The best known livelihood is reindeer herding, but only a small percentage of the Sami have been mainly reindeer herders over the last centuries. Today, many Sami lead modern lives in the cities inside and outside the traditional Sami area, with modern jobs. Some 10% still practice reindeer herding, which for traditional and cultural reasons is reserved for Sami people in some parts of Nordic countries.

Now what Sweden do have a problem with is Somalians. Much like NZ, Sweden feels that they must take it upon themselves to fix all the problems with corrupt Governments by moving the entire race of a troubled country to their own. It is no surprise that crime has skyrocketed 500% in some areas of Stockholm.

It is also no surprise that Labour model their policies on Sweden. But I wonder if they've noticed that Socialism, like a nasty cancer has eaten away at what was once a great country, much like NZ. Healthcare, education, policing and other core social services are useless. I also wonder if they've noticed that a right wing party won the last election. It was a landslide.