Chain oil

[Bass]

I run a Scott oiler - a magic device - the bike has done 52,000 km, the chain has been adjusted maybe 3 times and the sprockets look like new. However, the "Scott" chain oil is not always easy to get and retails for about $20-00 per litre.
Now let's get this in perspective - in 52,000 km, I have used about 2 litres of chain oil and it does a real good job. So it's hardly top of the list of bike running expenses.
Even so, I would be interested in finding out if anyone knows whether the Scott oil is some sort of wizard brew, carefully formulated for transmission chain, or merely a reasonably good, medium weight lubricating oil.

[xwhatsit]

I know somebody who put some ordinary light machine oil into his Scott oiler. It made a huge mess of his rear wheel, despite many adjustments.

Maybe you could fill it up with chain lube?

[Bass]

I know somebody who put some ordinary light machine oil into his Scott oiler. It made a huge mess of his rear wheel, despite many adjustments.

Yeah,
I doubt that light machine oil would cut it - the sprockets would tend to sling it off and the low viscosity would make it hard to get the feedrate right.
However, there are oils out there (Lubrication Engineers make a complete range) which are based on paraffinic crude rather than aromatic. They adhere like the proverbial excrement to the bedclothes, are available in a range of viscosities and simply refuse to emulsify with water. So I sorta thought that they might make a good chain lube and they don't cost anything like 20 bucks per litre.

Traditional chain lubes tend towards heavier viscosities to get the adhesion. Consequently, the oiler wouldn't feed them.

[The Pastor]

on another note im going to try some weird looking gel oil thing i found today. will let you know how it goes.

[dino3310]

a dude i used to work with used a thick chain bar oil from the chainsaw shop

[Pumba]

I have heard of other guys using differnt products in there scottoilers. I have run a scotty on my last two bikes and personally work to the theroy that they desiged that oil to be used with there product, and for $20.00 and 50,000km odd trouble free biking whay would you be even bother looking for something else.

[Robert Taylor]

I have heard of other guys using differnt products in there scottoilers. I have run a scotty on my last two bikes and personally work to the theroy that they desiged that oil to be used with there product, and for $20.00 and 50,000km odd trouble free biking whay would you be even bother looking for something else.

Excellent advice. We see many so called suspension experts rebuilding Ohlins shocks and forks with a cheaper oil, at the cost of lower performance and shorter service life.

Scotts is a good company from a country with a long history of engineering excellence.

Not worth reinventing the wheel.

[Bass]

I have heard of other guys using differnt products in there scottoilers. I have run a scotty on my last two bikes and personally work to the theroy that they desiged that oil to be used with there product, and for $20.00 and 50,000km odd trouble free biking whay would you be even bother looking for something else.

Excellent advice. We see many so called suspension experts rebuilding Ohlins shocks and forks with a cheaper oil, at the cost of lower performance and shorter service life.

Scotts is a good company from a country with a long history of engineering excellence.

Not worth reinventing the wheel.

Actually, I tend to agree with both of you gents, but it doesn't answer my question.
As for why - let's just say, perks of the job............
Also, I'll bet you a beer or two that Scotts do not refine their own oil but source it from another supplier to whom it is a sideline because of the relatively small quantities. Consequently, they will be reliant on someone else's technology.
As an example of what can happen in this situation, I have worked for a number of manufacturers who produced "own brand" products for supermarkets e.g. "Pams" etc. Always (and I do mean always) the quality was inferior to the manufacturer's own branded products.

[Coldrider]

$40 for 52,000ks is nothing compared to $17 app for 250mm cans of belray/PJ1 'O' ring chain aerosol cans, don't know how many K's each can but usually 2 a year for way less than 6,000 ks, plus the chain needs to cleaned regularly, without the extended chain life due to the scottoiler.
I work for a manufacturer that produces premium 'our brands' products for local & export, and do house brand products. You get what you pay for and they fulfil a market expectation perfectly, everyone likes an element of bargain, or so they think.

[Bass]

$40 for 52,000ks is nothing compared to $17 app for 250mm cans of belray/PJ1 'O' ring chain aerosol cans, don't know how many K's each can but usually 2 a year for way less than 6,000 ks, plus the chain needs to cleaned regularly, without the extended chain life due to the scottoiler.
I work for a manufacturer that produces premium 'our brands' products for local & export, and do house brand products. You get what you pay for and they fulfil a market expectation perfectly, everyone likes an element of bargain, or so they think.

I agree with all of this - you are exactly right, but again, it still doesn't answer my question

[Coldrider]

If no one can replicate the oil with 'off the shelf lubricants' then it must be wizard brew, but it may be not that magical. A chemical engineer would be able to do a diagnosis of it, burning it down and recording the radio waves emmitted is I think how they do this. I would think that that the group responsible for it's creation would have intended it to be only used with their oil in mind (ongoing income stream). The scottoiler has been updated a few times times but probably not as much as the spitfire, so quite a bit of effort has gone into it to stop obsolesence. I think the assumption is it is a mineral oil but this may not be the case at all, there is food grade oils & greases that are edible so to speak.

[Bass]

If no one can replicate the oil with 'off the shelf lubricants' then it must be wizard brew, but it may be not that magical. .

Bingo and exactly why I asked the question

A chemical engineer would be able to do a diagnosis of it, burning it down and recording the radio waves emmitted is I think how they do this. I would think that that the group responsible for it's creation would have intended it to be only used with their oil in mind (ongoing income stream). The scottoiler has been updated a few times times but probably not as much as the spitfire, so quite a bit of effort has gone into it to stop obsolesence. I think the assumption is it is a mineral oil but this may not be the case at all, there is food grade oils & greases that are edible so to speak.

I am a chemical engineer and you are sort of right on the analytical techniques that you refer to. I think that you mean infrared spectrometry where the various types of chemical groupings and their proportions can be determined. However, it tells nothing about how the various groups are assembled. Sort of like having a jigsaw puzzle and no completed picture
You are also correct in it being an assumption that it is mineral based and interestingly, it is a very high quality food grade oil that I am considering as a replacement. Some of them are edible, but they all taste like shit (again an assumption)

[Pumba]

Even so, I would be interested in finding out if anyone knows whether the Scott oil is some sort of wizard brew, carefully formulated for transmission chain, or merely a reasonably good, medium weight lubricating oil.

Actually, I tend to agree with both of you gents, but it doesn't answer my question.

I didnt answer your specific question cause to be honest I dont know the answer

Using my grand scientific knowdege of asumption (Im a Civil Engineer, I make water flow down hill). I would assume that mearly a good weight lubricating oil that flows well through the device that they have designed, nothing special, but it works

[Bass]

(Im a Civil Engineer, I make water flow down hill).

Ah.... the world's second oldest profession

[Ocean1]

Bingo and exactly why I asked the question




I am a chemical engineer and you are sort of right on the analytical techniques that you refer to. I think that you mean infrared spectrometry where the various types of chemical groupings and their proportions can be determined. However, it tells nothing about how the various groups are assembled. Sort of like having a jigsaw puzzle and no completed picture
You are also correct in it being an assumption that it is mineral based and interestingly, it is a very high quality food grade oil that I am considering as a replacement. Some of them are edible, but they all taste like shit (again an assumption)

Been a while, but food grade lubricants used to be utter shite in the critical lubricating performance stakes, and not particularly waterproof. Mandated for use in certain processing equipment but to be avoided if possible. Assuming you select a grade of oil appropriate to high speed chain duty there's probably no reason you couldn't mess around with VI improver ratios (if you can get your hands on some) to get the texture you want.

Personally I could never bring myself to deliberately feed oil that close to my back tyre, (got enough natural excuses for disaster) rather control it myself. On the dirt bikes I converted to Oring chains and wax because chain oils are either too thin to stay there long or sticky enough to attract enough sand and grit to more than offset the value of oiling in the first place. And the Buell don't need chain oil.

PS: according to DID the prefered method of lubrication for high speed chain lubrication is by permenantly installed brush, keeps the oil more evenly applied over the roller surface. I did do that once on a trials bike I used mostly for trail riding but managed to rip it off and loose it about the 3rd ride...