Chain oil

[Bass]

Been a while, but food grade lubricants used to be utter shite in the critical lubricating performance stakes, and not particularly waterproof.

They have come a long way but are still not truly comparable. So in this case I am not talking about the edible variety which if I am honest, probably means they are not "food grade" as it is normally understood. However the range I have in mind is commonly used in the food industry, mostly because of its excellent water resistance and so resistance to hygiene procedures.


Mandated for use in certain processing equipment but to be avoided if possible. Assuming you select a grade of oil appropriate to high speed chain duty there's probably no reason you couldn't mess around with VI improver ratios (if you can get your hands on some) to get the texture you want.

Personally I could never bring myself to deliberately feed oil that close to my back tyre, (got enough natural excuses for disaster) rather control it myself. On the dirt bikes I converted to Oring chains and wax because chain oils are either too thin to stay there long or sticky enough to attract enough sand and grit to more than offset the value of oiling in the first place. And the Buell don't need chain oil.

PS: according to DID the prefered method of lubrication for high speed chain lubrication is by permenantly installed brush, keeps the oil more evenly applied over the roller surface. I did do that once on a trials bike I used mostly for trail riding but managed to rip it off and loose it about the 3rd ride...

As I have mentioned, I have only used 2 litres in over 50,000 km, but I would tend to agree with you, were it not for a little secret weapon. The sprint has a single sided swingarm and the shape of it is such that the rear sprocket throws excess oil off on to the rear of the arm. Consequently, I can see at a glance how much oil is being sprayed around and so fine tune it very easily.
So to you too

I have to admit that I have long wondered about lubricants on dirt bikes.
I figure that if they are sticky enough to stay put, they are also likely to pick up grit and turn to grinding paste. That is unless you swamp the chain with enough oil to keep it clean, in which case your concern about oil round the back tyre becomes my concern as well.
So your use of wax may well be a very sensible method.

I'm looking at buying an adventure bike at the moment and so this is very topical for me

[Coldrider]

I have a mate with a DL1000 and he has his scotoiler delivery on the sprocket at the 4 O'clock position and it runs very clean. It is contrary to the instructions but works better for him.

[Ocean1]

I'm looking at buying an adventure bike at the moment and so this is very topical for me

Really depends on how "adventurous" you intend to be, (damn I hate that appelation, bit like what Mum used to call our wee after-school escapades). Lot of guys do use oilers, (especially on the big thumpers that push the limits of a 520 chain) and off road the undesirable consequences of oil flying around the place off road is limited to brake disk worries.

O-ringed chain is wonderful stuff, and in theory it removes the need for external lubrication at all as the moving load bearing surfaces are all inside the sealed cavity. Might even be the case in practice if you can control corrosion and dirt build-up. As I said I found wax to be a good compromise in both regards, although every couple of rides I still use my cunning chain cleaning device (patent pending, well aright, a couple of fingernail brushes nailed to a bit of 2"x1" with a coke bottle and tube feeding diesel) before re-waxing. If you're planning on getting seriously, filthily adventurous there's a couple of tricks not often seen nowadays that help keep shite out of the sprocket/chain interface...

Oh, and good news dude: \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/

[NighthawkNZ:Me]

I have heard of other guys using differnt products in there scottoilers. I have run a scotty on my last two bikes and personally work to the theroy that they desiged that oil to be used with there product, and for $20.00 and 50,000km odd trouble free biking whay would you be even bother looking for something else.

thats the theory I work on too...happy with my scott oiler

[Bass]

Really depends on how "adventurous" you intend to be
Oh, and good news dude: \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/

I am planning to be THIS adventurous

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...3&postcount=21

Tell me more please

[Ocean1]

Tell me more please

Guess you can hijack your own thread... done much dirt? what do you want to know?

The KLX is identical to the DRZ400 Suzuki, same production line, there's two dirt flavours, DRZ400S and DRZ400E (which equates to my KLX400R). The "E" is further split in NZ/Au into road legal variants and pure dirt models. Mine is road legal. Briefly, (and without "selling" it) it's the same hp as a DR650, same torque, MUCH lighter and far better suspended. I got it because it's one of not very many bikes which effectively fill a gap between full blown competition enduro bikes and "trail" bikes, (which seem to be more "agricultural" than I believe they could be).

Having said that I wouldn't write off a DR650 for Aus, especially an extended tour, it's a better road bike and pack mule than the 400 with a wider gear spread and you simply won't see the tight deep bush conditions there that we can get. As for KLRs, well they're a bit more road oriented again. You really need to nail down how rugged the most demanding sections will be because that's what's going to define how far along the dirt/road spectrum will best suit. The biggest factor for the off road end is weight, forget that and you'll regret it I promise. A more enduro type bike the seat and height will get old real quick on any extended road... but at least you'll get there.

[Bass]

Useful - thanks for that, but I was actually referring to the couple of tricks for keeping crud out of the chain-sprocket gap that you referred to in your previous post

[Ocean1]

Useful - thanks for that, but I was actually referring to the couple of tricks for keeping crud out of the chain-sprocket gap that you referred to in your previous post

Not keeping it out so much (it's going to get in anyway) as letting it out. First chuck the CS sprocket cover, too much of a trap and crap builds up in there and stays until the chain digs it out. You can modify the std cover or make a minimalist version but personally I just do without.

For a back sprocket for serious mud you can get a round file (or if you're lazy a carbide bit in a die grinder) and relieve the side of each tooth. You take a scollop maybe 2mm into the side between each tooth (where tha roller goes) about 6-8mm down towards the sprocket centre. Do every one and alternate sides. It allows an escape for mud which is otherwise trapped in the high-load roller contact area by the chain links.

[Robert Taylor]

$40 for 52,000ks is nothing compared to $17 app for 250mm cans of belray/PJ1 'O' ring chain aerosol cans, don't know how many K's each can but usually 2 a year for way less than 6,000 ks, plus the chain needs to cleaned regularly, without the extended chain life due to the scottoiler.
I work for a manufacturer that produces premium 'our brands' products for local & export, and do house brand products. You get what you pay for and they fulfil a market expectation perfectly, everyone likes an element of bargain, or so they think.

I think as you get older and wiser ( ? ) you spend less time in deliberation and just get on with it. Sometimes its better to be not too overly pre-occupied with saving pennies at every opportunity and instead spend the time working and earning.

That is not so much a criticism of what you are trying to suss out, its just that personally I wouldnt lose sleep over it.

Many products are rebranded, for example many of Ohlins oil products are made by a Norwegian company ''Statoil''. I am not trying to bypass their supply chain because this is what keeps people employed and frankly its too unproductive in time to do so.

[bimotabob]

O-ringed chain is wonderful stuff, and in theory it removes the need for external lubrication at all as the moving load bearing surfaces are all inside the sealed cavity. Might even be the case in practice if you can control corrosion and dirt build-up.

I dont agree with you.
O ring chains still need external lubrication.
The orings only slow the inner wear by stopping the factory lubricant getting out between the sideplates.
However the load roller has a fair amount of side play and spins freely on its bushing - so lubricant is needed around there to slow wear and corrosion.
I'd hazard a guess that having lubricant on the sprockets doesn't hurt either.

Never water blast/steam clean an o ring chain as the pressure can force past the o rings.


Regards

[Ocean1]

I dont agree with you.
O ring chains still need external lubrication.
The orings only slow the inner wear by stopping the factory lubricant getting out between the sideplates.
However the load roller has a fair amount of side play and spins freely on its bushing - so lubricant is needed around there to slow wear and corrosion.
I'd hazard a guess that having lubricant on the sprockets doesn't hurt either.

Never water blast/steam clean an o ring chain as the pressure can force past the o rings.


Regards

I did say "in theory" dude.

In practice... the only part of the assembly not lubricated by the grease applied by the OEM on assembly of an O-ring chain is the small part of the roller outside the seal, where it contacts the inner link plate. There's little to zero side load on a chain so the contact here tends not to cause wear. There is a high level of load between the roller and the sprocket but there's no movement between the two so a lubricant there does little other than retain grit to accelerate wear in that area. My experience has been that the biggest benefit to be had from a lubricant (particularly on a dirt bike O ring chain) is it's ability to act as a barrier to dirt and moisture. Wax does that better than oil, and because it stays put better it protects against corrosion better.

It does both amuse and frustrate me that people will spend a lot of money on a new chain and wrap it around the old sprockets, or replace a sprocket and leave the old chain on.

Do agree with the nix on waterblasting though, causes problems with wheel bearing seals also.

[warewolf]

However, the "Scott" chain oil is not always easy to get and retails for about $20-00 per litre.
Now let's get this in perspective - in 52,000 km, I have used about 2 litres of chain oil and it does a real good job. So it's hardly top of the list of bike running expenses.
Even so, I would be interested in finding out if anyone knows whether the Scott oil is some sort of wizard brew, carefully formulated for transmission chain, or merely a reasonably good, medium weight lubricating oil.

$40 in 50-odd thousand kays. How much did you spend on beer?

A few years ago, my fave shop ran out of ScottOil, couldn't get any till the next boat arrived. So they sent their last bottle off to their friend who worked for a large oil company with a request: analyse this, find us a reasonably close substitute. They came up empty-handed, the stuff is quite a cocktail and nothing off the shelf comes close.

One particular component mentioned aided wicking so that the oil would move from the delivered to the far side of the chain. Forgotten the rest. There were two or three more unusual things (or combinations) noted.

[cynna]

are scott oilers easy ato install and how much are they worth

[Coldrider]

Retail about $250, come with instructions for different motorcyles, feed is taken from vacuum.

[Bass]

$40 in 50-odd thousand kays. How much did you spend on beer?

I think that I made the same point

A few years ago, my fave shop ran out of ScottOil, couldn't get any till the next boat arrived. So they sent their last bottle off to their friend who worked for a large oil company with a request: analyse this, find us a reasonably close substitute. They came up empty-handed, the stuff is quite a cocktail and nothing off the shelf comes close.

One particular component mentioned aided wicking so that the oil would move from the delivered to the far side of the chain. Forgotten the rest. There were two or three more unusual things (or combinations) noted.

As for the rest of this, thank you sir, it is exactly what I wanted to know. Bling on its way

I suppose I should come clean at this point and admit that through work, I have access to a range of high grade lubricants. I was just wondering whether it was worth experimenting with any of them. Cost was never really a factor.
Obviously in the light of this information , I will stick (no pun intended) with the proprietory product.