Treaty of Waitangi

[MSTRS:Me]

.... please identify yourself as Maori, Pakeha, etc......

See...this just perpetuates the problem. Identifying with a particular racial group does nothing to bring us together as a nation (small as we might be). Most people will say along the lines of "We need to work together....etc" - but separating by racial title ensures failure.

[Lias]

We need to wipe our arses with it, then shove said used paper into the mouths of every fucking iwi sitting there with their hands out and their mouths open yelling "give me back my land".

You want your land back? Give me back my blankets and muskets, let alone the KFC, cannabis and V8s!

PS: I'm european who works at a large maori organisation :-) Maori culture is great, and most maori are fine.. but the ones who have their hands out make me want to go Hongi Hika on their arse..

[peasea]

im a european and my opinion is.


FUCK THE TREATY

What he said.

[nodrog:Me]

i think most of it is a crock of shit, 100 acres for a couple of rusty muskets and a crate of lion red sounds like a fair deal to me.

and what about the poor bastards that were here before for the Maori, what did they get? oh thats right, all they got was eaten!

its going to be funny in 150 years time when my ancestors go and claim back my XD falcon ute, because they dont think the 3 tinnies i got for it was a fair deal.

Go the treaty!

[Grub]

What the Europeans (my lot) did to Maori was not pretty. Worse than the US are doing in Iraq because they're not there to grab land, just their resources. If there were war crime tribunals and United Nations back then, they would have been pillored. It was bad, really bad and it was cloaked in the respectability of church and crown. I'm not surprised Maori have a grievance but FFS isn't it time to get over it?

Having said that, the current "Treaty" stuff is disgusting. You have a bunch of people with their hands out (again and repeatedly) saying that they're only losers because of what happened in the 1860's. Yes we need to redress a lot of wrongs, give back some land and money where the land can't be given back.

Then the recipients of the return need to get off their asses and do something with it! They got back the Raglan Golf Course and now its the biggest useless gorse patch in the whole Raglan area.

"The Treaty" in modern times has been grossly mis-used for claiming every bloody thing god made and as a crutch for every bloody cultural issue imaginable. Maori have serious social issues. Only they can fix them. That will happen only when they stop blaming everyone else and turn on their own to straighten up. There's been some good reparation, use it.

We also all conveniently forget that Maori took this land by force from the peaceful Moriori people and ate them. They did such a good job that only those who fled to the Chathams survived. So, if there are wrongs to be righted and if there are claims to ownership ... is the land we're giving back to Maori in turn going to be given back to the Moriori?

[quallman1234]

What the Europeans (my lot) did to Maori was not pretty. Worse than the US are doing in Iraq because they're not there to grab land, just their resources. If there were war crime tribunals and United Nations back then, they would have been pillored. It was bad, really bad and it was cloaked in the respectability of church and crown. I'm not surprised Maori have a grievance but FFS isn't it time to get over it?

Having said that, the current "Treaty" stuff is disgusting. You have a bunch of people with their hands out (again and repeatedly) saying that they're only losers because of what happened in the 1860's. Yes we need to redress a lot of wrongs, give back some land and money where the land can't be given back.

Then the recipients of the return need to get off their asses and do something with it! They got back the Raglan Golf Course and now its the biggest useless gorse patch in the whole Raglan area.

"The Treaty" in modern times has been grossly mis-used for claiming every bloody thing god made and as a crutch for every bloody cultural issue imaginable. Maori have serious social issues. Only they can fix them. That will happen only when they stop blaming everyone else and turn on their own to straighten up. There's been some good reparation, use it.

We also all conveniently forget that Maori took this land by force from the peaceful Moriori people and ate them. They did such a good job that only those who fled to the Chathams survived. So, if there are wrongs to be righted and if there are claims to ownership ... is the land we're giving back to Maori in turn going to be given back to the Moriori?

Well put. Totally agree.

[BuFfY]

I am a New Zealander.
I think that the treaty is useful in some aspects, yet it is a complete form of positive discrimination. I know a lot of people will argue with me about this but oh well.
I also think that it is relevant to teach from both perspectives. At school all I remember learning was that the poor lil maori got ripped off and da de da de da. My students will not be receiving that view.
Yet I don't think I have enough knowledge, yet, to form a complete opinion on it.

We were talking about it last night with an American that is staying here. I think that one thing that is left out of it all is that Maori were given the chance to have education etc but were also given the opportunity not to. Most of them have disregarded their original culture and only cling onto the Treaty if they need it to get ahead in some way

[oldrider]

To the Maori screaming, "give us our land back" I say, kick him in the balls!

That should give him a couple of acres to go on with!

Seriously:

The treaty causes nothing but trouble, neither side has honoured it and it has outgrown it's self as a practical document.

NZ can not move forward efficiently while dragging outdated rubbish behind it.

Consign the treaty to the museum, where it belongs!

Then lets get on with the real world. (IMHO) John. (New Zealander)

[Magua]

Universities are doing well keeping the gravy trail alive and well. All they need is a constant string of simpletons and it's easy.

What I said is far from what we are taught. We had no specific lectures on the treaty, just the one on SILNA (south island landless natives act) and the subsequent claim to the Waitangi Tribunal as a part of challenges to environmental management.

Gravy trail indeed.

[Finn]

Oh no, Skyrider is in the house. Wait for it...

[Skyryder]

Oh no, Skyrider is in the house. Wait for it...

The treaty was a document signed by both parties with the best of intentions. It was a document of the times where the food source from maori was rightly protected. The times have now changed and the continuation of this protected food source is now no longer relevant. Maori have been given every oppertunity in terms of working conditions, education and all that that has been available to non maori but still they want more. The foreshore issue is but one example. They will never be content OR consider themselves as an equal as indictive in a true partnership

Europeans gave them a written language and that in itself should have made up for all the wrongs, both real and percieved, but no NOT ONE MAORI HAS ACKNOWLEDGED THIS OR OFFERED ANY THANKS. NOT FUCKEN ONE

In short the treaty is a festering sore in this country, where the scab is constantly scrapped by maori who blame all their problems not on themselves but others and untill some one has enough guts to say enough is enough the scab will always be removed when it suits maori to do so.

Skyryder

[Pixie]

They should be thankful we didn't use them as quary,like the aussies did with the abos

[idb]

The Treaty was mostly honoured by the Europeans only when it suited them.
It was broken from day one and that's the basis of the Maori grievances.

Much of the trouble is knee-jerk attitudes from those ignorant of any history surrounding the Treaty...on both sides - Maori and European.

The Maori need to realise that they have to get the average bloke and blokess on side.
A Right is only a Right when it's recognised as such by the majority.

On the other hand the rest of us can't simply ignore it and hope it'll go away when it's the focus of such a large section of our population.

[Morcs]

We all look at the treaty and other such things from a modern point of view, with regards to human rights and all that crap.

Think back to the time, over 150 years ago for farks sake. Wars were quite normal. People die, the stronger team wins, and the country moves on.

I know im going to get blasted for what im about to say, but this country wouldve been better if the treaty never existed, yes, there wouldve been more harsh acts but in the long run in works out better. Look at all the old countrys of the british empire - all of them that claimed independance are worse off now IMHO.

- View of an ignorant and nieve pom. (god save the queen)

[MSTRS:Me]

On the other hand the rest of us can't simply ignore it and hope it'll go away when it's the focus of such a large section of our population.

The focus is brought by a relative few, don't you know?