Treaty of Waitangi

[Indiana_Jones]

Born in Europe

It's just a lame excuse for Maori to use to milk the system, commit crime etc.

I don't complain to everyone in Europe that did/tried to invade Britain.

Get on with it!

-Indy

[bobsmith]

I was born in south korea. (New Zealand Citizen for 7 years)

Before I came here I had the view that I was coming to a free country where everyone is treated equally...


Far from it.

I won't even get into the freedom part now as that would take too too long... As for the equally part...

The only way to describe Treaty of Waitangi and the government's action on it is that it's a legalised racism targeted against anyone who is not maori in this country. How long can we dwell on our past and make good what our ancestors did wrong so many generations ago? How long can we allow this legalised discrimination of people in this country to continue?

Hell, my ancestors were brutally murdered and raped by the Japanese, you don't see Koreans going around killing Japanese or Japanese apologising. Many of the Australian ancestors were convicts shipped over from Britain, Australians are no longer treated as convicts. Let us move on and stop this madness.

I say "Fuck the treaty" +1

[yod]

so what im hearing from most is:

if you fuck a community over and then ignore it for long enough (as well as benefit from the ill-gotten gains for 170 years and oppress the remaining natives...nice bonus), you should be allowed to plead ignorance and apathy and get away with it because you're in the majority....

i have to say im mightily impressed with those pulling out the "they did it to someone else first (apparently) so we should be allowed to as well" excuse too....very mature wow...the ignorance in this country is stupefying

[bobsmith]

the ignorance in this country is stupefying

It's called modern realisation not ignorance.

Treaty of Waitangi and current law surrounding it is a legalised discrimination based on one's heritage. Much like slavery and social classes. There is no place for it in the modern world.

[idb]

The focus is brought by a relative few, don't you know?

I'm not talking about just the ones that protest.
There'll be plenty that feel aggrieved that don't march across bridges, tear up public gardens or throw mud at politicians.

[Grub]

i have to say im mightily impressed with those pulling out the "they did it to someone else first (apparently) so we should be allowed to as well"

So you don't believe the Maori completely wiped out a race of people who had no weapons or word for war? Apart from that, you rather missed the point.

Maori are crying "foul!" and fair enough too. But when they are asked in the same vein about their injustices to Moriori, they refuse to acknowledge or engage on the issue - both officially and unofficially. Your use of the word "apparently" perfectly illustrates my point, you've just done it too. How would you feel if European New Zealanders used the same dismissive term in relation to Maori claims of injustice ... huh ?

Double standards, anyone's double standards, I cannot stomach.

[idb]

Hell, my ancestors were brutally murdered and raped by the Japanese, you don't see Koreans going around killing Japanese or Japanese apologising.

Korean "Comfort Women" WW2?

[idb]

So you don't believe the Maori completely wiped out a race of people who had no weapons or word for war? Apart from that, you rather missed the point.

Maori are crying "foul!" and fair enough too. But when they are asked in the same vein about their injustices to Moriori, they refuse to acknowledge or engage on the issue - both officially and unofficially.

Double standards, anyone's double standards, I cannot stomach.

There's the small matter of a written contract involved in the Maori/European situation though.

The book "Moriori" by Michael King says the NZ was most likely not settled by Moriori.

[Hitcher]

Once the historic injustices and claims under the Treaty are resolved, it will probably be time for a republic and a constitution. At that stage the Treaty should be past it's use-by date.

I have a nagging suspicion that such is the strength of New Zealand's fondness for a constitutional monarchy, that Great Britain will be a republic long before we are...

[peasea]

The focus is brought by a relative few, don't you know?

Agreed. The noise comes from a very vocal minority group (of stirrers, IMHO) who have nothing better to do and always have their hand out. They have all day to occupy places coz they don't have jobs.

We've pandered to these bludgers long enough.

I've never actually come across a whinging Maori, all the maoris I've worked with and had anything to with want nothing but the right to go and do a decent days work for a decent days wage.

Maybe I'm moving in the wrong circles. I don't know any Maori activists but I know some hard working fishermen who are getting ripped off by their own people. What does that tell you?

[Winter]

In short the treaty is a festering sore in this country, where the scab is constantly scrapped by maori who blame all their problems not on themselves but others and untill some one has enough guts to say enough is enough the scab will always be removed when it suits maori to do so.

Skyryder

Nicely Put.


+1 to Fuck the treaty. (Im a Kiwi)

[scott411]

the treaty was doomed by the start, it was poorly translated in the beginning and the english and moari versions are very different, and their is no clear translation,

i say scrap the thing, get a bill of rights, get rid of the monarchy while we are at it and lets start working together and celerbrate our similarties, not our differences

[yod]

So you don't believe the Maori completely wiped out a race of people who had no weapons or word for war? Apart from that, you rather missed the point.

Maori are crying "foul!" and fair enough too. But when they are asked in the same vein about their injustices to Moriori, they refuse to acknowledge or engage on the issue - both officially and unofficially. Your use of the word "apparently" perfectly illustrates my point, you've just done it too. How would you feel if European New Zealanders used the same dismissive term in relation to Maori claims of injustice ... huh ?

Double standards, anyone's double standards, I cannot stomach.

oh hell no....it doesnt illustrate your point at all, actually

my use of the word 'apparently' is because I, unlike most others around here, will not suggest I know everything about a subject when I dont; in other words, I have heard that the Maori screwed over the Moriori but I dont know it for a fact so I would rather not misrepresent myself (or the real facts) and state that something happened when it may have, in fact, not.....

too many people on this website will make statements and represent them as fact when they have no fucking idea what they are talking about - and too many other ignorant idiots will then take that as gospel...."i read it somewhere...."

I'm a decent enough bloke to choose not to try and sway other people opinions by misrepresentation....thats why 'apparently'


EDIT: im not suggesting for a second that it didnt happen, im just suggesting I dont know fuck all about it (but either way, that's not the point) - regardless of whether the Maori fucked over Moriori, the "they did it first so we can too" excuse is STILL unbelievably childish and insurmountably ignorant

[MSTRS:Me]

I'm not talking about just the ones that protest.
There'll be plenty that feel aggrieved that don't march across bridges, tear up public gardens or throw mud at politicians.

Look what happened in the Far North...with regards to the sealing of the road to Cape Reinga. The local Kaumata sent those lying, cheating, bludging 'protesters' scurrying off. We will see more instances of this in the future, as more people see these pricks for what they are.
Edit. Those Kaumata (note the capital to denote respect) see that the future lies in going forward for the betterment of all.

[HTFU]

I am a Bitsa Kiwi like the majority, you know the types, Scottish, English, NZ Maori Ancestory. Working in NZ secondary system and at a school with 55% Maori students I have a few theories on what is going wrong in NZ and its got nothing to do with the treaty.

Firstly I believe our education system from day nought has created the bicultural problems and now dawning multicultural problems we have. Maori culture and language was raped over successive eduaction policies, the disciplining of Maori Language users, the stories of savages and the over sensationalised Moriori concepts of NZ history are documented parts of our education system. A large generation of New Zealanders were brainwashed in the early and mid parts of last century, which was then passed onto their children.

This has resulted in a group of New Zealanders disliking things Maori and another group feeling guilty of Maori mistreatment (Institutional types like university staff and government). You also have a group of people who identify as being the mistreated Maori and make use of the so called gravy train some New Zealands resent. Namely the ones with European ancestry. Hence a division amongst New Zealanders.

Those New Zealanders with European ancestry that cry foul over such atrocities as the Moriori slayings etc really need to undo the years of brainwashing with a bit of reading and research, the TV one archives are a good start for some docos, there is no doubt that some crap went down but crap goes down all over the world, I am happy that those old timers tried to reduce the impact they were having on the people they encountered when they got here, regardless of who was here, how they got here or when. Hence a piss poor attempt at a treaty. Far prouder of my European ancestors than an Aussy should be. Hell mine even liked the savages so much as to marry one.

Those Maori sucking on the gravy train are no better than the early government that stole land. As far as I am concerned they are stealing tax payers money, but doing it legally under the cover of the treaty. I am not talking about the rural Maori making a go of some deserved compensation and clearly are doing right by their people, I am talking about the ones in the institutions, they are the problem. Hypocrisy of beurocrasy.

In regards to the effectiveness or our education system it has never worked for Maori (how could it really). The trouble is it never really worked for anyone else. Ask yourself how did School C go. Sure a few of us cruised through it all and did well but the majority didn't (any second year 5th out there) and thats everyone not just Maori. Basically we are flogging a dead horse, some schools are just flogging it a bit better than others. How are our Island and Asian students going. What about the Somalians and other African students, is it working for them. Look at our gang land culture coming through its all a product of our kids (and there parents) disengagement from an archaic education system.


Like the majority of New Zealanders I want to move on from the focus on the treaty like I said from the start thats not where the problem lies. I look at the Maori students in my school and I know we are doing them a disservice. They need to learn stuff other than irrelevant and complicated Maths and Science. As do the majority of our students. Why do we push this shit on our kids. Work placements and I mean helping the community, the elderly, environment, trade based learning, more PE and Health. If this was the focus of the government we would have more engaged students, less problems with kids going off the wall, (and the money needed to address them, like teachers needing more pay because its a shit job).

On a daily basis I see teachers trying to impart useless information on kids that are sick of it. Fuck I was and that was 20 years ago. I talk to 50 year old teachers who were second year 5th and were sick of the shit. But here we are still trying to shovel it. Engaged Maori kids in schools will become succesful motivated adults that won't need the treaty. Is the treaty relevant today, no because it still isn't helping the Maori students I see everyday.


Anyway the Majority which is New Zealanders with European and Maori decent will soon become the minority in this country and it will have nothing to do with the Maori and the treaty and thats when the real fun will begin. Bring on those Crips and Bloods. Can't wait.