Not just another revolutionary
Can anybody point me in the right direction for the rules for road racing. I mean when you can expect to hold your line and when you are required to make room for another rider etc...
I have a hard copy of the MNZ rulebook but can't find where on track rules are
http://www.mnz.co.nz/competitionrules.aspx
OK, so its not as if I am likely to lose a World Championship point in a protest but it would be good to know when I should assert my line or back off.
Fair weather rider
There are no defined rules, the best advise I ever got was "hold your line". You are no required to concede, the onus is on the overtaking rider, in other words, it is their job to get pass you. The worst thing you can do is be constantly turning around looking for the faster guys coming through. you can usually anticipate them by seeing their lap boards coming out as you near the pit staight but don't make any sudden moves as these guys have already sized you up and have a plan to pass, you making an unexpected move could put all of you at risk of an accident. Just hold your line and let them figure out how to get past.Originally Posted by GaZBur
Rest In Peace
This year MNZ introduced the use of the Blue Flag. This is the same that has been used in auto racing for ever. The blue flag will tell you that there is a faster rder coming at you from behind. As Maarty said, it's the overtaking rider's responcibility to keep clear so just hold your line.
Registered User
GazBur your question really brings to light what I think is an issue of lack of instruction of rules and track behavior.
To road race in NZ all you have to do is join a club,fill in the form and send it to MNZ with some money,get your license and away you go.
If you want to drive you need a learners license and to get that you need to demonstrate (some) competence by passing a scratchy test.
At most club meetings I've been at they hold a first timers extra briefing but apart from this, guidance from Stewards during race days and the Mentors of the sport were do people get access to this knowledge?
My involvement in the events of 24 July 2005 at Manfield made me really think about this. Without speculating to much about that incident I think that things may have been different if people were instructed about things like ALWAYS looking as far up the track as possible, not at the guy beside you or your tacho for longer than you should, holding your lines etc etc, all the stuff that guys who have been around a while do without any thought.
I believe MNZ should implement some form of basic race track competency test. Motorsport NZ has such as system I don't know the details of how it works but the test wouldn't have to be any harder than the road learner licence scratchy test.
I know people may react to this negatively and I have no idea if MNZ would have the resources to implement such a thing without increasing fees etc but I do think its worth discussion.
L-Plate Rider
I agree that this is an issue that needs to be addressed. I have raised this directly with the MNZ road race commissioner during the great debate on the the street stock tyre rules. Best thing to do is let Paul Stewart (MNZ road race commissioner) hear your concerns and views, more voices may get a basic intro or guidelines book for new comers to the sport and it should cover all facets not just road racing.
Other than the what to do when been passed other issues may be the use of clear hand (or foot) signals to advise other competitors what you are doing, what to do if you fall off or brake down, basic bike set up advice etc etc.
I would be interested in hearing from some people that recently joined the racing game to tell me of what was explained to them and or how they found out what was expected re the issues above. I am happy to collect data and views and forward these with a formal submission to the MNZ board for discussion.
Forum whore
I have no opinion on this, only a question....
My limited experience fron track days is that mixted types of bikes can cause problems in this regards as well. Old bikes, sports bikes and motards all take a slightly different approach to corners which can lead to a few interesting moments for all parties.... Again, I guess it's up to the overtaking party to make sure and leave enough sea room but really the faster guys feel they have priority and it often gets 'ugly'....
Off the wagon
Nobody knows!!!
Enigma
+1 for that Maarty, If you are a beginner take it slow ,think what you're doing, watch what goes on at a couple of meetings. Common sense is a wonderful thing. It takes time , so take the time. Gaz.
You'd never go hungry with Nigella Gaz.
If it weren't for flashbacks...I'd have no memory at all..
Retirement with a cause
The best way i can describe what to do when being passed by a faster rider is as follows......
If the faster rider comes past you on the straight then no action needs to be taken but be aware another faster rider may also be about to pass you. Keep your line and dont TRY to move out of the way as that can cause problems as Marty said above. The onus is on the passing rider to make it safe and effect the pass without risk.
If you find you have a faster rider going around or under you in a corner then its safe to assume YOU already have YOUR line established and so does the faster rider. If you both stay with what you are doing then alls well. No action needed.
If the same situation occurs during braking its not a good idea to try and show your braking skills (as has been done many times) and take out another rider in doing it. Just continue as you have been during the previous laps as this is where you are happiest and more than likely safest within your own ability/skill level.
Above all dont slow down and stare back over your shoulder during a corner as you can find the edge of the track in a few seconds and thats messy for everybody, it may cause a red flag if your in a dangerous place at the side of the track. Also you have to repair your bike and thats no fun.
Racing is meant to be fun and thats why a certain amout of it is done under a general guideline and not a hard and fast rule writen for every situation. If we all act with common sense and treat our sport as being able to hurt us if we cock up then im sure we can all learn from others and our own experiances as they occur. Nobody out on the track wants to get hurt or cause hurt to another person.
If you have an issue with a rider that may have passed you or carved you up a bit much , dont go and confront said rider but ask the riders rep of the day to help sort it out. If you do it to somebody else then go and buy the guy / girl a coffee and say ooppps sorry but also learn from it.
Many clubs have an effective BUDDY system running and questions and help can be obtained easily, although every second person may have a differant angle of a given situation / question its still possible to get a balanced informed judgement to answer your original queary, if we cant do that then i feel a definate need to ask "should i be doing this " .
Read up on racecraft ( ie Kieth Code etc) and attend a training course to learn whats expected of you and what you can expect from others.
Stay Safe , Paul.
Fair weather rider
Just hold your line!
If the fast guys think they have dibs, they don't! You have paid your money like everyone else and you have just as much right to be there.
If you are feeling pressured then you could look at another class, not because you don't deserve to be there but just for you own peice of mind. Clubmans is always a good start as everyone is generally in the same boat.
Lastely, don't think that you carn't ask the faster guys for advice! if the fob you off then they are jerks, if they help you out, thank them! they had to start somewhere too remember! Just be aware that the fast guys are sometimes very busy and picking your moment helps, lunchtime is usually a good time.
"channellling the Pleideans"
I am going to a course this Saturday run by Motorcycling Canty which I hope will cover this sort of stuff. Worst case scenario is I get fast guys giving me tips on Saturday, plus a bunch of laps, best case is I become Freddie Spencer overnight.
I thought elections were decided by angry posts on social media. - F5 Dave
Not just another revolutionary
I am sort of a beginner again having raced in the 70's and 80's but getting back into it just for fun. Done some club events this year including a couple of gravel and 5 motard days. Good advise to take it slow - but you know how it is sometimes when you get on the track you leave your brains in the pits. The reason I am asking about the rules is last time I was caught out in the first corner sandwiched between two other bikes all going for the same line so I am guessing I should have backed off before it became crunch time, but as it was a tight Kart track with relatively modest speeds we were all just a bit over aggressive. I will be off to the big tracks (Teretonga and Levels) over the next two months or so and just wanted some clarification so I didn't cause anybody any grief or end up breaking things like bikes or bones when the speeds get higher.
I have learned the "take is slow" lesson the hard way!
Fortunatley the next 2 large track events are 'Have a Go' days with coaching available - so I will be making the most of the advise and coaching I can get there. I think these sort of events are a brilliant idea for us newer riders to ease our way in.
Hardcore Biker
People down south have probably observed that in Streetstock the young and new riders are very carefully introduced to the sport with plenty of coaching, on track monitoring and correction as their skills and understanding develops. As one of the coaches involved I'd love to see the knowledge of a wider group all collated and turned into a manual that benefit's all new riders entering the sport. NZ is probably the ONLY country in the world that just issues a licence and just let's people out there. Unfortuntely make this kind of manual needs money and a lot of time from key people, the same ones that are already overworked (and emptying their pockets) out there doing it. This need has been discussed with MNZ but they can't / won't help so down here we're currently looking for a sponsor to get it done independently. Can anyone help here?
Hardcore Biker
I have a lot of experience of being lapped.....
With our juniors we teach them to observe all their usual lines, keep it as smooth and predictable as possible, at all times. Before the blue flag rule came along, we'd say that after a few laps and then you're likely to be lapped, then alter your lines a tiny wee bit by leaving a metre on the inside, and the same on the entry / exit to the kerb. This allows a passing rider who makes a mistake of speed / distance judgement an "out" with an assurred last minute bit of track. This little gap rarely changes much for the rider being passed.
Now we have blue flags, then same deal. I really think MNZ should make a recommendation along these lines re the correct response to the "blue flagged rider"
Hardcore Biker
If you are talking racing then ALWAYS hold your line. It's up to the passing rider to try get past you - you are under no obligation to make it any easier for them. If there are three riders competing for the same piece of tarmac then the bravest usually wins. However it can also end in tears so backing down isn't so bad but will cost you places in the long run.
If you are about to get lapped then thats a different story. Having never been in that situation before I can't really comment........haha yeah I wish but seriously still hold your line. I like to give the guy just enough room to pass me on either side if he wishes as long as it doesn't mess up my line.
On track days you can be a bit more lenient. If a slower rider is holding you up and starting to frustrate you, its better to back off half a lap instead of taking a risk for zero gain.
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