Turns out biofuels are not such a great idea.
Reported in the Dom this morning, Nobel prize winning chemist Paul Crutzen has calculated that making biofuels produces up to 70% more greenhouse gas than diesel.
The sky is falling what wll we do ?
Forum whore
Turns out biofuels are not such a great idea.
Reported in the Dom this morning, Nobel prize winning chemist Paul Crutzen has calculated that making biofuels produces up to 70% more greenhouse gas than diesel.
The sky is falling what wll we do ?
David must play fair with the other kids, even the idiots.
Deus ex ukulele
Biofuels are evel (sic). The best hydrocarbon is one that is pumped out of the ground. When those are exhausted hopefully somebody will have figured out how to manufacture and distribute hydrogen cheaply enough to make fuel cells commercially viable for everyday use in vehicles.
"Standing on your mother's corpse you told me that you'd wait forever." [Bryan Adams: Summer of 69]
Wearing Hi-Viz Black.
Also the biofuel production is resulting in farmers planting biofuel crops instead of food crops.
Another famine on the horizon already.
TOP QUOTE: “The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people’s money.”
parting of the sensory
... and the latest is that many people in Mrka are jumping on the "grow crops for biofuel" wagon to make a big/quick buck, and the results are a big glut of ethanol (so prices have dropped) and the distribution infrastructure can't cope with getting the stuff distributed. D'Oh!!
... and that's what I think.
Or summat.
Or maybe not...
Dunno really....
Bogeyman
One economic evaluation demonstrated that if the current annual budget for just the distribution of petrolium based fuel were available for the development of hydrogen fuel cells they would be available and price competitive within two years. Doesn't fix the problem of distribution and the lack of available vehicles, and that industry is quite happy with the current set-up thanks very much.Originally Posted by Hitcher
Personally I think hydrogen is a great idea, as a nation we would no longer be at the economic mercy of others with regards to fuel. The fundamental arguement behind global warming however I do question, far better qualified people than me have also questioned it: http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...arch&plindex=8
Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon
Deus ex ukulele
Even worse, marginal land that should not be cultivated or even farmed, will have to be brought into production. And a lot of the crops suggested, e.g. maize and beet, are seasonal and dependent on climate or, even worse, irrigation and artificial fertiliser application to optimise their yields.
Biofuels are not a sustainable option.
"Standing on your mother's corpse you told me that you'd wait forever." [Bryan Adams: Summer of 69]
has made a bo-bo in his nappies
who cares?
i have a diesel 4wd and i'm about to start running it on biodiesel that i've made from collected used fish and chip oil.
costs me about 30c per litre all up
if there was a viable diesel sportbike out there I'd be interested
Forum whore
There are always 2 sides to every story.
Bio fuel in theory is great, however the way they are making the corn based bio fuel is what is causing questions to be raised. If they made the entire cycle more sustainable, it would be a very viable option... but that takes reponsibility from the point go.
Besides. There are other ways of making bio fuel than just using the common corn option.
Animal fat can also be used. This can be removed from what would have been the waste stream to make it.
Some guy in Canterbury is also looking at using other sources too...
Blah blah blah etc etc etc
Hardcore Biker
How do you get the oil out of the Fish and Chips?
has made a bo-bo in his nappies
i suck it out and spit it into a bowl of courseHow do you get the oil out of the Fish and Chips?
how else do you do it?
has made a bo-bo in his nappies
It's not biofuel per se that's a problem; it's the decision of what crop to grow on what land that is the issue. The Argies grow it from sugar cane and that's viable in their climate. Yanks seem to want to make it from corn and corn is a problem because it uses heaps of water and chemicals. It's recently been suggested that thew best way for Yanks to make biofuels is to use the grasses of the Great Plains, a natural crop that would not need massive amounts of chemicals or water to regrow.
Biofuels made from waste products are excellent but the problem is supply. There just isn't enough for all. Of course that leads to the same conclusion as power generation: the best solution is not just one but a wide range of different sources.
I'm looking into Hydrogen generation too and there's even a possibility of using it on a bike to 'subsidise' petrol.
Deus ex ukulele
Interestingly tallow (animal fat) is a lucrative product for purposes other than biofuel, to a point where it's probably too expensive an option for fuelling vehicles. It's used for all sorts of purposes in food production, including manufacture of some margarines.
In the greater scheme of things too, there's not really that much of it to make a significant difference. This is also true of waste vegetable oils. While the odd individual may be able to adapt and run a vehicle on it, there's probably only enough of the stuff in New Zealand to power a few thousand vehicles.
"Standing on your mother's corpse you told me that you'd wait forever." [Bryan Adams: Summer of 69]
Bogeyman
Yup, but conditions here aren't good for any of the crops that can be optimised for ethinol production. South America is doing well with that industry but both growing conditions and the economic environment there are favourable.
We could turn left over bits of sheep and cows into fuel and, (there's a lot of small interests doing just that) but political ineptitude prevents a more widespread uptake of the technology. On one hand the gubmint mandates a requirement for diesel to contain 5% biofuel by next year sometime, on the other hand environmentally driven regulations make it extraordinarily economically unatractive to do so. So we're exporting tallow to Aus, where they do it for us, and buying back the blended diesel at premium prices...
Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon
Forum whore
So if the yanks or kiwi's or who ever grew a crop that could make bio-fuel that is appropriate for their climate etc, and grew it in a more sustainable way? None of the shit you mention Idle, plus no removing of other crops to create these crops etc... then it would be viable?
Its taking responsibility, not just having a theory of being more sustainable, and then taking the quickest, nastiest route to get there.
Fore-thought and planning can make a huge difference.
On a personal note: I dont really care about the debate about this on KB. I do care about the environment, I would not call myself a greeny, but I do my bit and I educate myself on this kind of stuff.... I dont really care if people agree with me or not, I know from my personal moral stand point I am happy with what I am doing... call me a freak, a do-gooder, what ever I dont care. Not directed at anyone at all... just all the people who flame people who care about the environment.
has made a bo-bo in his nappies
Here's the info on using grasses. There's no reason we couldn't do the same in NZ, we have plenty of good grasslands and lots of water in the right places:
http://environment.newscientist.com/...-biofuel-.html
Of course I'd still rather see the water powered hydrogen motor.............
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