Robert Taylor and idleidolidyll's political debating thread

[idleidolidyll]

But there are no full blooded maoris left, we should collectively consider ourselves as New Zealanders and get on with it.

Having said that I am largely proud of my British ancestry and find it only logical that there is a Union Jack in the corner of our flag.

Have I just pulled another pin from another hand grenade?!!!

I see, so your conservatism is just strong enough for you to want to go back far enough for YOUR opinions and viewpoints to be supported but not far enough for those of others to be upheld.
That's the argument the Zionists use so they don't have to admit the abuse they uneashed upon Palestinians when they were forced out of their homes and off their lands.

Yes, let's all think of ourselves as New Zealanders and go forward NOT backward. However, within that assignation, you will still think yourself 'proud' to be of Brit heritage............................there's a kinda hypocrisy in there Robert.

[idleidolidyll]

But would the product/labour now not used by the old traditional burger supplier not just be transferred over to Maccas - who hype it up and sell more product/employ more staff?
They obviously saw a niche there and took advantage of it - anybody else could have done the same.
And those 'low-paid young workers' - take Maccas out of the equation and what would they be doing? - not working in better conditions and getting larger pays I'd vouch.

BTW: Can't stand Maccas, it's 'cardboard' food, tasteless and unappealing to me and I buy it maybe once a year tops. (Just in case you thought I moonlighted for them)

I don't think they saw a 'niche', I reckon they saw an opportunity to build a monopoly.
I'm not so sure more people are employed by MCD's than would have been if old style burgers bars had continued without their coming; McD's cut prices by cutting costs and wages are a major cost.

"And those 'low-paid young workers' - take Maccas out of the equation and what would they be doing? - not working in better conditions and getting larger pays I'd vouch.":

that's mere speculation, who says they wouldn't be employed by their mums and dads in burger bars or other cottage industries?

Yes, I agree, McD's is not a quality product

[scumdog]

The wringing of hands and righteous indignation from those who claim the socially oppressed can’t make ends meet without my money make me ill. The poorest of us has easy access to a lifestyle better than most of our parents had, one simply beyond any of our our grandparents reach. Anyone suggesting otherwise is making comparisons with those who work hard to maintain a good modern lifestyle, one they probably earned.

Uncanny, at work last night we were discussing just that!

As one guy said: "Could our parents if unemployed ( refused to get a job?) and then shot off down to WINZ to get a chit for a new washing machine?"
Not every household had a car back then, TV was for those well-off, getting a wristwatch even was something special yadda yadda yadda - all the 'treats' are now what the non-working 'expect' as a gimme.

And another topic was the Govt has made it soooo easy to get credit/buy on h.p etc - yet they are the ones moaning about overseas debt and lack of savings ethics by the population - go figure??

[idleidolidyll]

apples with apples not oranges

nowdays a home needs both parents to work to have a decent quality of life and usually having more than 1 or 2 kids is out of the question due to cost.

sure, we can buy better toys than our parents but is our quality of life actually any better or is it actually worse?

what's the point of it all if you have bugger all free time?

[davereid]

Good idea, lets give the country back to Maori and let them sort out all the fuckups that we Euros imposed on them.

What a load of rubbish. Before the arrival of the european maori lived a far-from perfect existance.

On the bright side it was a pretty egalitarian existance ! They were almost all cold in winter, threatened with slavery by opposing tribes, and dead by their mid forties.

The only thing that has fucked up the maoris is the welfare state. Thats why when they go to Aussie, and don't qualify for assistance they get cracking and achieve.

[Robert Taylor]

I see, so your conservatism is just strong enough for you to want to go back far enough for YOUR opinions and viewpoints to be supported but not far enough for those of others to be upheld.
That's the argument the Zionists use so they don't have to admit the abuse they uneashed upon Palestinians when they were forced out of their homes and off their lands.

Yes, let's all think of ourselves as New Zealanders and go forward NOT backward. However, within that assignation, you will still think yourself 'proud' to be of Brit heritage............................there's a kinda hypocrisy in there Robert.

British history certainly isnt clean but then whose is? Do I go to Gordon Brown because I bear the emotional scars of my grandfather having suffered appalling injuries at the Somme? Or do we go further back to 1066?

[Ocean1]

they complain that it takes away their right to make a profit from the kinds of businesses that work for dole schemes rely on

Sounds like a typically warped quote.

If you quote this one get it right: "Even heavilly subsidised they cost more to employ than they earn."

[Grahameeboy]

Well.................approximately 750 Kiwis per week are ''voting with their feet'' and resettling to Australia alone, Dingolands biggest immigrant group. The Poms are in second place, and they also have a Govt that is bonkers.

Immigrants that are replacing this loss are largely less well educated and from a background / social group that is far more likely to vote for that woman who looks way different to her election billboards smiling mug shots. This is no less than calculatingly deliberate.

And a bureaucracy that is out of control, 50,000 or so MORE civil servants ( by definition paid beneficiaries ) since that dark day in November 1999 when the electorate lost its marbles. What for? More wastage of taxpayers money that could be better utilised left in the pockets of those earning it. Perhaps we would have more people doing real and productive jobs instead of living off the public purse.

You know, this country could be the best in the world but the combined actions of many Goverments since 1972 or so have incessantly turned us into a slum with scenery.

In reference to a previous post defining a ''Conservative'' as someone who doesnt want change, lets go a step further.....in many ways turning the clock back would be a great thing.

Geeze, this is why I avoid politics.....I have travelled a fair bit and reckon that NZ is probably the best 'Westernised' country in the world to live and that is all that matters to me.

I think one can allow oneself (I use 'one' to avoid descrimination) to get too embroiled in the what fors and want fors of politics and that this is just what the Politicians want.........'life' is what it is all about and sometimes we....whoops, sorry..one can allow this to get lost in politics

[davereid]

Not at all: Prior to Macs, we had big juicy burgers and a wide choice from lots of locally owned and run outlets with the profits staying in NZ.

If it were true.. then Maccas would never have prospered. Even though you don't like Maccas, clearly much of the rest of the country vote with their wallets and do.

Its more than just the food, its a playground for the kids, a seat and a cup of coffee.

At my local NZ style burger bar, you stand in a long slow queue, they fuck your order up reliably as day follows night, and at best the kids play on the street outside in the remnants of last nights urine.

So, while you can still find a kiwi burger bar - they arent as dead as you suggest, they still offer the same old service as before.

So guess what - most mums would rather take the kids to maccas.

[Ocean1]

Uncanny, at work last night we were discussing just that!

Hope you were using better diction though...

As one guy said: "Could our parents if unemployed ( refused to get a job?) and then shot off down to WINZ to get a chit for a new washing machine?"
Not every household had a car back then, TV was for those well-off, getting a wristwatch even was something special yadda yadda yadda - all the 'treats' are now what the non-working 'expect' as a gimme.

And another topic was the Govt has made it soooo easy to get credit/buy on h.p etc - yet they are the ones moaning about overseas debt and lack of savings ethics by the population - go figure??

Dude the Govt hasn't made it easy for the loan sharks, they just haven't done anything about them at all. I'm not sure there's any way you can stop people making such choices by legislating the supply side of that market... Not without a 12 guage anyway.

[scumdog]

apples with apples not oranges

nowdays a home needs both parents to work to have a decent quality of life and usually having more than 1 or 2 kids is out of the question due to cost.

sure, we can buy better toys than our parents but is our quality of life actually any better or is it actually worse?

what's the point of it all if you have bugger all free time?

Rubbish, both parent do NOT have to work to have a 'decent quality of life' - it is more to buy flasher toys.

They are sacrificing 'free time' for more baubles, not for essentials.

Of course it MAY be necessary in large built up areas where property prices and commuting are extortionate that both parents have to work - but thats' their choice to live there.

[Ocean1]

Geeze, this is why I avoid politics.....I have travelled a fair bit and reckon that NZ is probably the best 'Westernised' country in the world to live and that is all that matters to me.

I think one can allow oneself (I use 'one' to avoid descrimination) to get too embroiled in the what fors and want fors of politics and that this is just what the Politicians want.........'life' is what it is all about and sometimes we....whoops, sorry..one can allow this to get lost in politics

Politics is just a label dude. The fact is as soon as one decides to organise an interaction within any group there's a negotiation involved, and that's all politics is. The alternative is tribal warfare, an option reverted to whenever extremism becomes hard policy. Extremism becomes fact in a democracy only when the professional negotiators ignore the majority.

[Grahameeboy]

Politics is just a label dude. The fact is as soon as one decides to organise an interaction within any group there's a negotiation involved, and that's all politics is. The alternative is tribal warfare, an option reverted to whenever extremism becomes hard policy. Extremism becomes fact in a democracy only when the professional negotiators ignore the majority.

Sorry, English is my first language....

[idleidolidyll]

Rubbish, both parent do NOT have to work to have a 'decent quality of life' - it is more to buy flasher toys.

They are sacrificing 'free time' for more baubles, not for essentials.

Of course it MAY be necessary in large built up areas where property prices and commuting are extortionate that both parents have to work - but thats' their choice to live there.

you MIGHT be right but as you don't provide any references or support, I can only suppose it's conjecture on your part.

with that in mind, i'm looking to find the current wage for a sergeant in the NZ army.
my father and mother bought up 6 children on his income with just a little sewing piece work by my mother: i wonder if that's possible today?

[davereid]

Rubbish, both parent do NOT have to work to have a 'decent quality of life' - it is more to buy flasher toys.

And its also marginal tax rates of 39%, + 12.5% GST.
Its annual rates bills of $2000

Its just that we only get to keep about half of what we earn. So yep, two of us have to work to be in the same place.

Luckily, for some of us, work is not a chore or a punishment.

Its the way we improve our lives, and the lives of those we care for.

(edit - am I agreeing with scumdog again ? ... rubbing head looking for bumps..)