Robert Taylor and idleidolidyll's political debating thread

[idleidolidyll]

If it were true.. then Maccas would never have prospered.

sadly untrue: the power of marketing often overcomes good sense

[idleidolidyll]

At my local NZ style burger bar, you stand in a long slow queue, they fuck your order up reliably as day follows night, and at best the kids play on the street outside in the remnants of last nights urine.

we are talking about comparisons between McD's when they arrived and burger bars back then not with what the market has been driven to AFTER the introduction of a virtual monopoly.

[scumdog]

we are talking about comparisons between McD's when they arrived and burger bars back then not with what the market has been driven to AFTER the introduction of a virtual monopoly.

Hey it was a free market out there - Maccas just had it sussed what people wanted/hype they wanted to sell people.
Law of the jungle/business 101.

[idleidolidyll]

scumdog: the NZ Army website is crap; it keeps timing out and doesn't seem to offer wages anyway.

any idea how much a sargeant earns (artillery or grunt, not a tradesman: comparing apples with apples)?

lets say it's $60k. add say $10k income from the missus working occasionally part time

Is that enough to bring up 6 children today? what kind of quality of life would they have?

[idleidolidyll]

Hey it was a free market out there - Maccas just had it sussed what people wanted/hype they wanted to sell people.
Law of the jungle/business 101.

yep, they saw an opportunity to carve a nice monopoly through hype and marketing as opposed to quality

that's what i've been saying

are we actually agreeing with each other? lookout chicken little! the sky is falling!

[idleidolidyll]

Sounds like a typically warped quote.

If you quote this one get it right: "Even heavilly subsidised they cost more to employ than they earn."

you might be right, i can't lay my hands on dtat immediately and i'm off to work shortly

however, i DO recall businesses complaining about work for dole schemes.

even if they didn't make money, so what? the idea is to keep people working and not sitting on their arses drawing the dole isn't it? it'd probably STILL be cheaper.

one 'ondustry' that springs to mind for that kind of work is local government; councils.

surely a lot of their work could be done with work for dole labour.........

[idleidolidyll]

What a load of rubbish. Before the arrival of the european maori lived a far-from perfect existance.

On the bright side it was a pretty egalitarian existance ! They were almost all cold in winter, threatened with slavery by opposing tribes, and dead by their mid forties.

The only thing that has fucked up the maoris is the welfare state. Thats why when they go to Aussie, and don't qualify for assistance they get cracking and achieve.

Hey, don't complain to me, it was Robert who wanted to go back just far enough for his views to be supported; I suggested we go forward instead............

[scumdog]

scumdog: the NZ Army website is crap; it keeps timing out and doesn't seem to offer wages anyway.

any idea how much a sargeant earns (artillery or grunt, not a tradesman: comparing apples with apples)?

lets say it's $60k. add say $10k income from the missus working occasionally part time

Is that enough to bring up 6 children today? what kind of quality of life would they have?

Six kids and living in Auckland might be pushing it

But down here they would be quite comfortable.

I don't mean "Let's go to Queenstown sking for the weekend with the family" comfortable but a warm tidy house, enough good food, a reliable Honda Oddyssy (sp?) type vehicle, can pay the bils and a little discretionary money too.

There's not too many down here with six kids i grant you so I cannot think of one that fits your above catagory 100%.

[idleidolidyll]

British history certainly isnt clean but then whose is? Do I go to Gordon Brown because I bear the emotional scars of my grandfather having suffered appalling injuries at the Somme? Or do we go further back to 1066?

come on now Robert; it was YOU who suggested going backwards not me.

i merely pointed out the hypocrisy of stopping at the point YOU think suits.

MY suggestion was to go forward

[Mr Merde]

... the current wage for a sergeant in the NZ army.
my father and mother bought up 6 children on his income with just a little sewing piece work by my mother: i wonder if that's possible today?

Your dad finished up as a Warrant Officer 1st class by the time the 6th kid came along.

As he was in 161 Bty he was also BSM.

Difference between a Sargent and a WO1 is quite substantial

[idleidolidyll]

Six kids and living in Auckland might be pushing it

But down here they would be quite comfortable.

I don't mean "Let's go to Queenstown sking for the weekend with the family" comfortable but a warm tidy house, enough good food, a reliable Honda Oddyssy (sp?) type vehicle, can pay the bils and a little discretionary money too.

There's not too many down here with six kids i grant you so I cannot think of one that fits your above catagory 100%.

We lived a lot in Auckland as well as Wellington and Waiouru. Since my parents DID have 6 kids, that's the only valid way I can compare.

We did go live with Grandpa in Makarewa for a year while Dad was in Vietnam but that was not the norm.

free time, quality of life, time with the kids etc.

we didn't have a lot of money but we had a great life and did a lot of stuff together when i was a kid

[idleidolidyll]

Your dad finished up as a Warrant Officer 1st class by the time the 6th kid came along.

As he was in 161 Bty he was also BSM.

Difference between a Sargent and a WO1 is quite substantial

OK, the average income spread over his earning life then

for the most poart of the 5 kids, he was just a sergeant/staff sergeant

the question stands: what would that be like today with 5 kids?

[scumdog]

BTW: It would generally be agreed that having six kids was a choice - as was the realisation that a Sgts income was sufficient to raise said kids would it not??

[idleidolidyll]

Your dad finished up as a Warrant Officer 1st class by the time the 6th kid came along.

As he was in 161 Bty he was also BSM.

Difference between a Sargent and a WO1 is quite substantial

are you sure that wasn't YOUR father?

[davereid]

Same here - you can still buy a nice home for 250k, and its an hour in the trains wine bar to work in Welly, or 35 mins on the scoot to Palmy.

And you can still buy a burger in any one of 20 old fashioned burger shops, as well as Maccas.

But.. your comparison betwwen maccas and the old burger shops is not really correct.

The current crop of stand-in-the-queue takeaway bars is not "the survivors" of an assault by Maccas.

The old kiwi milk-bar cum Tea shop is still there - its just morphed into a cafe, it prolly sells Heineken and you have to beg for a glass.

The ole fish and chippie has taken up the slack - thats actually the market working, as it should.